GRANT MEMORIAL 



HEARINGS AND REPORT ■^^^ 
COMMITTEE ON THE LIBRARY 

\X6 t.t jjpuSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 



60th congress, 1ST SESSION 






WASHINGTON 

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 

1908 



S'i\\ 



• 4- 



D. OF ft 

APR 20 '908 



oo 

a MEMORIAL TO GENERAL GRANT. 



Committee ox the Library, 

House of Represextatives, 
AVashington^ D. C. Monday^ January 13, 1908. 

The committee met at 10.80 o'clock a. m.. Hon. Samuel W. McCall 
in the chair. 

Present, Representatives ]McCall (chairman). Conner, Hamilton, 
Howard, and Thomas, of the committee. 

Present also, Hon. AVilliam H. Taft, Secretary of War; Repre- 
sentative Smith, of Iowa : Representative Sherley. of Kentucky ; 
Gen. Grenville M. Dodge. Col. Charles S. Bromwell. Frederick Law 
Olmsted, esq., Henry Hicks, esq., and others. 

The committee thereupon proceeded to the consideration of the 
bill (H. R. 1050:2) " to amend the provision of the act entitled 'An 
act making appropriations for sundry civil expenses of the Govern- 
ment for the fiscal year ending June 30. 1907, and for other purposes,' 
approved June 30, 1906, making an appropriation for continuing 
the work for the erection of the memorial to Gen. Ulysses S. Grant," 
and the resolution (H. J. Res. 77) " relative to the location of the 
Grant memorial." 

The clerk called the roll and, bv request of the chairman, read 
aloud the bill LI. R. 10502. 

The Chairman. Then I also introduced a joint resolution prac- 
tically suspending the operation of the laAv until the question raised 
by Mr. Sherley 's bill could be considered and iiiA'estigated. 

STATEMENT OF HON. SWAGAR SHERLEY, REPRESENTATIVE 

FROM KENTUCKY. 

The Chairman. Mr. Sherley. have you anything to say to the com- 
mittee ? 

Mr. Sherley. Mr. Chairman. I do not know that I have anything 
specially to say. The bill speaks for itself. The only part in it 
about which I wish to speak is the proviso that in the location of the 
Grant monument in the Botanic Garden no historic trees shall be 
either removed or in anywise disturbed. 

As known to_ the committee, the chief controversy in regard to 
the erection of this monument has turned upon the site selected by 
the commission. I knoAv it is not my desire, and I believe it is not 
the desire of anyone else, to in anywise delay the erection of this 
proper memorial to General Grant. But Ave belicA'e that it is possi- 
ble in the city of Washington to find a suitable site Avithout sacri- 
ficing the trees that are in themseh'es momiments to historic CA^ents 
m the country, and that even if the present site of the Botanic 
Garden is continued, it does not necessarily folloAv that it Avill haA'e 
to be on such ground in the Botanic Garden as will destroy not 
only the Crittenden peace tree and the Beck tree, but quite a num- 
ber of other trees of historic moment. 

For my part I ahvays look Avith regret on the destruction (tf any 
tree. I think that there is nothing more worthy of preservation 



Z GRANT MEMORIAL. 

than a tree, and to destroy a historic one, unless there be absohite 
need for it, is, in my judgment, unjustifiable. 

It has been suggestt*d that these trees coukl and would be moved; 
and there seems to be a conflict of testimony as to whether that can 
be done. I understand that Mr. Smith, of Iowa, is of the opinion that 
the trees that were moved in the Capitol grounds some years ago 
lived. I have the statement from Mr. Smith, of the Botanic Gar- 
den, that, with the exception of one or two of those trees, they all 
died. I know of my own knowledge that some years ago in the 
city of Louisville, my father at that time being president of the 
park commission, an attempt was made to move quite a number of 
large trees, and that in nearly all cases the attempt was not success- 
ful ; and that was particularly true in regard to trees of hard wood. 
And I am satisfied that in the case of a tree of the size of the Critten- 
den oak an attempt to move it is simply another means of destroy- 
ing it, 

Mr. Hamilton. Wliat is the size of this tree, Mr. Sherley ? 

Mr. Sherley. This tree at its base, I should sa}^ is 2 feet through. 
Two feet above the ground it is probably a foot and three-(]uarters 
through; and while it is not an unusualW large tree above, the base 
of that tree is of the size that I indicate. I have not measured it, but 
I have examined it very carefully, and that is my opinion. 

Mr. Hamilton. And the other tree you speak of? 

Mr. Sherley. The Beck tree is a very much smaller tree. It is an 
elm, a Kentucky elm, and is a tree that I should say is not quite a foot 
through. 

The Chairman. The Crittenden oak was planted in 18G1 or 1862, 
was it? 

Mr. Sherley. I do not remember the date, and I am not quite as 
familiar with the facts as I should be. It was planted by Mr. Crit- 
tenden, who was then a Senator from Kentucky, to commemorate an 
effort made for peace between the sections just prior to the outbreak 
of the civil war. 

The Chairman. I assumed that it was about the time he introduced 
the " Crittenden Resolutions." 

Mr. Sherley. I think it was after the introduction of those reso- 
lutions; but it related to them and to an offer of compromise that 
was made by certain northern Members of Congress to certain 
southern Members looking to the withdrawing of some rather in- 
fiammatory resolutions offered by these southern Members and the 
adoption of a plan that should avert the civil war. 

Ml-. (\)NNER. Is there any record of the year of the planting? 

Mr. Sherley. I can, if the committee desires, get a detailed state- 
ment of that. 

The CiiAunrAN. I think perhaps Mr. Smith can tell us that. 

Mr. Sherley. I should not like to speak loosely from memory on 
that point at this time. I had expected that Mr. Smith would be 
here. He was a party to the planting of the tree, and can give the 
details of it, and I know he will be very glad to appear before the 
committee. 

M' Hamilton. Mr. Chairman, has any gentleman who intends to 
appt V before the coniinittoo a chart of the Botanic Garden, show- 
ing the proposed location of the monument? 



GRAXT MEMORIAL. • 3 

Mr. SiNiiTH, of Iowa. Colonel Bromwell has all that sort of matter 
here, and I suppose, if 3^011 Avill pardon me, Mr. Sherley 

Mr. Sherlev. Certainly. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. And you. ]Mr. Chairman — I had supposed 
that some one interested in the bills would have Doctor Smith here. 

The Chairman. I notified ]\Ir. Smith to be here this morning, or 
rather ilivited him to be here ; and he said he would be glad to come. 

Mr. Sherley. I saw Mr. Smith Friday night. I think. 

Mr. Thomas. Are there any other trees that would be interfered 
with by the proposed location except the Crittenden oak and the Beck 
tree 'l 

]\Ir. Sherley. There are quite a number of other tre^s that will be 
interfered with, in my judgment, besides the Crittenden and the Beck 
trees. 

Mr. Thomas. You do not know what they are? 

iSIr. Sherley. There is a tree planted by 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Boss Shepherd? 

Mr. Sherley. No; the Englishman. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I never heard of any but the three myself. 

Mr. Sherley. Well, there is another tree. The chairman can 
answer that question. There is a tree along the site of this proposed 
monument. 

The Chairman. I do not remember any other tree that comes very 
near the Howard tree. 

Mr. Sherley. The Howard tree was what I was trying to recall. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. AYould that be removed? 

Mr. Sherley. No; but the efl'ect would be, I think, to seriously 
imperil the Howard tree. It is right on the line. 

Mr. S:NriTH, of Iowa. Well, General Howard fully approves of that 
much of the danger to the Howard tree. 

Mr. Sherley. I do not know about that. 

The Chairman. Colonel BroniAvell sa^^s there are nine trees in all. 

Colonel Bromwell. But all except three of those are small, unim- 
portant trees. This [producing map] represents the outline of the 
site. The Howard tree is very close to the foundation. It is not 
absolutely touched, but is within about 18 inches of the foundation. 
The Crittenden tree is here, and the Beck tree here [indicating]. 

(Colonel Bromwell thereupon explained to the committee the map 
produced by him, and the location of the Grant monument.) 

jNIr. Sherley. Mr. Chairman, I do not know that I desire to add 
anything at present. I should have been prepared to go more into 
detail, except that I expected that Mr. Smith, who had a personal 
knowledge of the matter, would be here; and I am sure he nill be; 
but if he does not come I shall be glad to supply the committee with 
the detailed facts in connection with the planting of these tree^. 

I am very much obliged to the committee. 

STATEMENT OF HON. WALTER I. SMITH, REPRESENTATIVE 

FROM IOWA. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I do not claim, Mr. Chairman, to know a 
great deal about the details of this matter, but I have tried to advise 
myself as to who did know something about it; and I shall be glad to 
assist the committee so far as I can b}^ way of suggestion. 



4 . GRANT MEMORIAL. 

We have here to-dav Colonel Bromwell, in charge of public build- 
ings and grounds and executive officer of the Grant Connnission. 
Two members of that commission are present, and we also have here 
Mr. Hicks, of Xew York, probably the most experienced man in 
the United States in the moving of large trees. AVe want, in what- 
ever time the committee may see fit to hear us, to have all these par- 
ties appear before the committee. But I am sorry that we have had 
to go aliead without any showing on the other side. One of our con- 
tentions is that there are no trees down there that are historic trees 
in any proper sense ; and of course we should have been glad to have 
heard in what degree the}' were claimed to be historic trees betorr* we 
entered upon a hearing in opposition to these bills; but I thii;k per- 
haps a general statement by General Dodge will enlighten the com- 
mittee as to the history of this matter. 

The Chairman. The committee would -like to be informed more 
particularly, Judge Smith, with regard to the exact location of the 
memorial and just what trees it is necessary to interfere Avith; also 
anything else that the commission may see fit to suggest. 

Mr. S^iiTH, of Iowa. I think Colonel Bromwell can give you more 
information upon such details tiian anyone else. 

The Chairman. It is rather fundamental for us to understand, 
first, the exact location. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I do not know that this is an appropriate 
time, Mr. Chairman, but I do wish to suggest to the committee that 
at some time before concluding its deliberations it go to the store- 
house in which the model of this memorial is exhibited. 

The Chairman. Do you mean at the Library ? 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. No; it is not at the Library. It is down at 
the storehouse of Colonel Bromwell. 

The Chairman. I understood there was a model at the Library of 
the Burnham plan. 

Mr. Smith, of loAva. No; I mean a model of this memorial. In 
the first place, I want to get before the committee an idea of 
the gigantic character of this memorial. 

Mr. Conner. Where do vou say it can be found ? 

Colonel Bromwell. At Thirteenth and C SW. 

Mr. S]\riTH, of Iowa. At Thirteenth and C SW., at the storehouse 
of Colonel Bromwell. 

Mr. Hamilton. Mr. Smith, during your remarks will you kindly 
state who constitute this commission, when it was appointed, and in 
a general way Avhat its duties are? 

Mr. S:\htti, of Iowa. The counnission Avas composed, under the 
law providing for this memorial, of the i>resident of the Society of 
the Army of the Tennessee, who is and has for many years been Gen. 
G. iNI. Dodge, of the Secretary of AVar. and the chairman of the 
Senate Committee on the Library. That has been Senator Wetmore, 
and the place is temi)orarily vacant, as I understand it. But that 
is the membership of the commission. Of course when this commis- 
sion was cieated that made Mr. Secretary Root a member of it. He 
has subsequently been succeeded in the War Department by Mr. Sec» 
retnry Taft. 

Mr. Haafilton. AA'hen did tliev designate this location? 

Mr. S:vnTii, of Iowa. In 1903." 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 5 

Mr. Hamilton. What has been done in reference to this monu- 
ment? 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I think that can perhaps be more fully 
stated by others; but in 1901 this commission was created by a special 
act of Congress, and authorized to locate the memorial in any un- 
occupied public ground in the city of Washington aside from the 
Capitol and Library sites. They first thought of locating it in the 
circle back of the White House, or on the grounds in the rear of the 
State, War, and Navy building, and called for designs adapted to 
those two locations. The designs, when presented, were carefully 
examined : and finally, at the end of two years, in 1903, a design hav- 
ing been accepted which was not adapted to the ground back of the 
State, War, and Navy building, but only to the circle back of the 
White House, and protests having been made against locating it in 
that circle, the commission finally unanimously voted to locate it in 
the Botanic Garden at the present site. That necessitated changes 
of the design and changes of the contract; and that was all done. 
Then, when they w^ere ready to erect this memorial (and it is a 
memorial as distinguished from a statue) , some question was raised 
as to whether the Botanic Garden was a part of the Capitol 
grounds or not. I do not think, now, that they are part of the 
Capitol grounds, and the commission do not think now that they are 
a part of the Capitol grounds within the meaning of the original 
act. That is, we claim that from 1901 this commission had the right 
to locate this memorial in the Botanic Garden. But some ques- 
tion having been raised upon that subject, the commission (General 
Dodge, Mr. Secretary Taft, and Senator Wetmore) addressed a letter 
in June, 1900, to the Appropriations Committee of the Senate, or to 
the chairman of it, requesting that in connection with the appropria- 
tion to carry on the work it be expressly declared that they had a 
right to put it in the Botanic Garden between First and Second 
streets. That amendment was adopted in the Senate, reported out of 
the Senate committee, adopted in the Senate, came to the House, and 
was agreed to in conference. 

Mr. Hamilton. So that the place is fixed in the Botanic Garden 
by law ? 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Is fixed in the Botanic Garden by law. 

Mr. Conner. But the particular spot? 

Mr. Smith, of loAva. No ; I will say not the identical spot. 

Mr. Conner. But between First and Second streets? 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Between First and Second streets. And I 
will say that at the time this law passed Congress the site, identical 
with where they now expect to erect it, was actually staked out upon 
the grounds. 

Mr. Hamilton. Was there any debate upon the bill which desig- 
nated the site? 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. No; not at all — not in the sundry civil bill. 
We do not claim that changed the law at all. We claim that under 
the original existing law they had an absolute right to put it in the 
Botanic Garden. 

Mr. Sherley, Mr. Smith, may I ask a question right there? 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Certainlv. 



6 GRANT MEMOEIAL, 

Mr. Sherley. What do you consider to be the meaning of the 
words " unoccupied portion of the Botanic Garden ? " 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I will cheerfully answer that. That lan- 
guage has been interpreted in every law of this character ever passed 
from the foundation of the Government to refer only to buildings. 
In practically every instance this language has been uniformly used. 

Mr. Sherley. May I ask you another question ? 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I want to finish that statement. This lan- 
guage has been generally used in bills authorizing the location of 
monuments and memorials; and trees and things of that kind have 
never been treated as occupying the ground within the meaning of 
those laws, but they have always been cut down wherever necessary 
to establish the memorial or monument or building. 

Mr. Sherley. What would properly occupy ground in the Botanic 
Garden? 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I will cheerfully answer that. This Botanic 
Garden, I think all will agree, is not a beautiful affair. The 
fence around it is unsightly. If we want a botanical garden, the 
existing area allotted to it is wholly inadequate, and has long been so 
recognized by Congress. As early as March 3, 1899, nearly nine 
years ago, an act relative to the control of wharf property and certain 
public spaces in the District of Columbia was passed by Congress and 
approved by the President. The second section of that act was as 
follows : 

That on or before Jaunary 1, 1903, the feuce around the Botanic Garden 
shall be removed : Provided, That at the first session of the Fifty-sixth Con- 
gi'ess the Joint Committee on the Library is directed to report a bill embody- 
ing a plan for removing the Botanical (Jardens to another location. 

Now, it is not made a proviso that if they do report this bill it 
shall be removed ; but the peremptory order was made by Congress 
as early as 1899 that before January 1, 1903, this fence should be 
taken down; and it further provided that the Committee on the 
Library is directed to report a bill for the removal of the whole 
Botanic Garden to a suitable location. 

The Chairman. Judge Smith, just read the proviso again, please. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I wish to read it, because I was misled by 

reading it first myself; and T am very anxious 

Mr. Conner. Can j^ou not get that in the record? 

Mr. Howard. Was not the proviso My. Sulzer's amendment ? 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I do not know whose it was; but you will 
notice that it was not ordered taken down provided this resolution 
is reported. 

The Chairman. I was wondering if that const nicl ion might not 
be the true one. 

Mr. S:Nrrrii, of Iowa. I grant you. Mr. Chairman, that in first 
glancing at it I thought it might bear that constructu)n myself; 
but upon reading it T found it would only bear one construction. 
[Reading:] 

Skc. 2. That on or before .January 1. IDO;}, the fence around th»> Botanic 
Garden shall be removed: I'roridcd, That at the lirst session of the Kifty-sixth 
Congress the Joint Conunittee on the library is directed to reitort a bill em- 
bodying a plan for removing the Botanic Garden to another location. 

So that practically nine years ago Congress declared its purpose 
to move this Botanic Garden. 



GRANT MEMORIAL. < 

I therefore answer my friend Mr. Sherley that this is but a tem- 
porary Botanic Garden; that the purpose has long been dedared 
to remove it— and it ought to be removed. We either ought to sim- 
ply abandon it, consolidating it with the. propagating gardens or 
the Agricultural Department, or else we ought to establish a botani- 
cal garden in consonance wuth the dignity of this people. 

Mr. Sherley. If the gentleman will permit me, his argument is 
apropos as to the need of a new garden; but it does not answer the 
specific question as to whether trees and plants in a botanical gar- 
den are not properly occupying ground, in the sense of the words 
" occupied ground." 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I will answer the gentleman that in my 
judgment a tree does not occupy the ground any more in a botanical 
garden than in any other park or public place. All parks and pub- 
lic places are kept for the growing of trees, and they are ornamental, 
and so on: but I do not think a tree occupies ground any more in 
a botanical garden than it does in a public park. And in every 
instance where this or substantially this language has been used, it 
has been held that the trees did not occupy the ground within the 
meaning of the act authorizing the locating of a memorial there. 

I am taking up a good deal more time than I wanted to at this 
time, because there may be many suggestions that I shall want to 
make to the committee on these bills before the hearings are con- 
cluded. I have answered this question, and perhaps have drifted 
too far, Mr. Chairman, in doing so. 

The Chairman. Judge Smith, the committee would like to hear 
you very fully. It occurs to the committee that there are some gentle- 
men here from out of town who would like to get away as soon as 
they can. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I think so; and I wish to have them heard 
first. 

The Chairman. We Avill have ano<"her hearing later, and will then 
hear you at length. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I shall be very glad indeed to yield to anyone 
now. ]Most of these men are here from out of town. 

The Chairman. Perhaps this is the time to hear General Dodge, 
ihe chairman of the commission. 

STATEMENT OF GENERAL GRENVILLE M. DODGE, CHAIRMAN 
OF THE GRANT MEMORIAL COMMISSION. 

General Dodge. Gentlemen, perhaps it would be better for me to 
state to you here the efforts that have been made to build a memorial 
to General Grant. 

In 1895 the Society of the Army of the Tennessee, of which General 
Grant was formerly the commander, appointed a committee of its 
officers, several of whom w^ere Members of Congress, to come to Wash- 
ington and to appeal to Congress to make a proper appropriation for 
a proper memorial to General Grant. That committee came here and 
labored up to 1901. In 1901 what was known as the Hepburn bill 
was passed, which appropriated $250,000 for a memorial to General 
Grant; and the commission named to carry it out was Secretary 
Root, Mr. AVetmore, and my.self. That law, as Judge Smith has said^ 
we all considered as adequate. But when the question was raised as 



y GRANT MEMORIAL. 

to the jurisdiction of Congi'ess, in order to be in accord with Congress 
and do nothing that would not meet their approval, we simply asked 
that that amendment be passed. But we do not consider and did not 
consider that the location of the memorial down here was made under 
that amendment. It was made under the original act. 

Our first Avork under this act authorizing the memorial was to 
obtain the models. In asking for models we selected ourselves two 
places. One was the north point of what is known as the '" White 
circle," the north end of it; and the other was the square south of 
the State Department. We did that because the sculptors, in pre- 
senting their models, wanted to make models that w'ould fit the 
ground where they were to go. The model which was accepted, 
which I think is one of the finest that has ever been produced, had, 
before it was accepted, the judgment of St. Gaudens. Mr. Daniel G. 
French. Mr. Burnham, Mr. McKim, General Schofield, and Mr. Mere- 
dith; and they were unanimous in accepting it. That model was 
made to fit the north end of the AAHiite House lot. It is 254 feet long 
and G9 or TO feet Avide. and of course requires a great deal of space 
about it. 

After the model was accepted there was a great deal of opposition 
to our going into the White House lot. The President and some of 
the membei's of tlie Cabinet and others thought that that lot should 
not be disturbed. They claimed that it broke tlie view from the 
White House to the Washington ]Monument. And in response to 
tliose protests we made up our minds that if we could find a ]ilace in 
Washington that was suitable for the purpose we would go to it. 
The commission for two years looked at every square and every place 
in Washington, and we finally located in the Botanic Garden here 
in 1903, and made up our minds that that was the only ground that 
had tlie space and that was proper for a memorial to Grant. We 
considered that the memorial to such a person as General Grant 
should be somewhere in connection Avith the White House and the 
Washington Monument or with the Capitol and the Washin<>-ton 
Monument — on the axis of two of those buildings. We did not 
think it Avas proper to put it out in the city here in any confined 
square. Therefore Ave located in the Botanic Garden in 1003. and 
remained there, looking at other places as from time to time they 
Avould be proposed to tis. For instance, Avhen they got the Union 
Station here some persons came to us and suggested that Ave place 
Grant in the plaza in front of that station, and the conuriission Avent 
thei'e and viewed tliat site. We found that (liat was under the Dis- 
trict Commissif)ners and the District Connnissioners had other vicAvs 
in the matter, and of course Avould not let us go there. When Secre- 
tary Taft became a member of the commission the question of this 
location came up again, and Ave considered it, and it Avas concluded 
that this Avas the only place that Avas suital)le in Washington to ])lace 
a memorial to (General (irant. 

In the sj)ring of 11)00, Avhen it Avas coming near the time tliat aa'G 
should connnence Avork, or consider it, Ave had the outline of the 
memorial staked out there; and it has been staked out there for t\A^o 
years. ^X^i never have had any protest or any connnunication of any 
kind in relation to it. The location Avas accepted generally by every- 
one, and a great many persons consider it the best. All the sculptor.s 



GRANT MEMORIAL, 9 

and architects of the country that have seen it have said that it was a 
fine location and a proper location. 

Allien Avork was conunenced in the Botanic Gardens this fall, 
Secretary Taft was in the Philippines and I was out West; and I 
received a communication from the War Department to the effect 
that there were protests being made chi account of the three historical 
trees. That is the first that any of us ever heard of those trees. We 
knew nothing about them. Nobodj' had ever said a word to us about 
them, although we had had staked out there in the grounds the out- 
line of this memorial. And after receiving this protest, and not 
being able to be here, I sent a telegram to Lieutenant Poole, who had 
charge of the work in the absence of Colonel Bromwell, directing him 
to suspend the work until I could return. 

A^^ien the time came to make the actual location in the grounds, 
Colonel Bromwell, who had charge of it, and who had already made 
the location, suggested to the commission that we have some experts 
to advise him as to the exact location and as to the fitting of the 
model to the location. At his suggestion, Frederick Law Olmsted, 
jr., of Massachusetts; Mr. McKim. of New York; Mr. Shrady, the 
sculptor; Mr. Casey, the architect, and himself were designated. 
They made the location almost exactly where Colonel Bromwell had 
originally made it. Thej^ having made the location, and knowing 
all about it. I, at the suggestion of the Assistant Secretarj'^ of War, 
asked those gentlemen to meet me here on the 12th day of November 
to go and see what we could do to change the monument or to save 
the trees. 

Several of the gentlemen who were present at that meeting had 
had a great deal of experience in the moving of trees ; and it was the 
unanimous decision of the commission that there was no difficulty 
in moving these three trees and saving them. And upon that the com- 
mission advised unanimously that the monument be retained where it 
was and that the three trees should be moved. 

Since that time the commission has investigated this matter of 
moving the trees and has gotten all the information there is. We 
have with us here to-da}^ a gentleman who has been in the business 
for thirty years, who has. been here and seen these trees, and has 
successfully moved trees equally as large. The commission desires, 
before you make any decision, that you will hear him. He has pho- 
tographs and other dat^ to show j^ou, and he stands, I think, at the 
head of that work in this countr}?^- 

Even up to to-day we have never had any communications— I do 
not think we have had a single communication — asking that this 
monument should be removed, but we have had a great many letters 
and have had resolutions from a great many societies protesting 
against it. I will simjily read you some of them to show what sort of 
communications the commission has received. 

Secretary Taft. That is. General, against the change? 

General Dodge. Against an}' change of the monument. We have 
had a few (two or three or three or four) communications in relation 
to saving the trees, but none that advise a change in the location of the 
monument. 

Among these resolutions is one embodying the action of the Society 
of the Army of the Tennessee. All of the members of that society 
have been here and have seen this location. All of the members of the 



10 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

Societies of the Armies of the Potomac and the Cumberland have 
been here at times and seen this location; and I think the veterans 
of the civil war ofenerally are greatly pleased with the location. 
There is no question but what General Grant's family are very much 
opposed to any change. There have been sent to the commission the 
resolutions of the Illinois Commandery of the Loyal Legion. Gen- 
eral Grant went into the service from that State. There is the letter 
of the sculptors in New York in relation to the location being a proper 
one. There are the resolutions of the NeAv York Commandery of the 
Loyal Legion, of which General Grant was a member. There are 
also resolutions of the society of sculptors or architects here in this 
city, and of the Architectural Club. 

The Chairman. T suppose. General, those resolutions are not very 
lengthy ? 

General Dodge. No: T can leave a copy of them with tlie conunis- 
sion. 

The Chairman. The Chair would suggest that they be given to 
the stenographer and be spread in the report of the hearing. 

General Dodge. I will give them to him when I have picked them 
out. 

The Chairman. Please do so, if they are not very lengthy. 

(The resolutions, etc., above referred to, will be found at the end 
of General Dodge's statement.) 

General Dodge. Now, our monument has progressed. We have a 
good many of the models of the parts of it. We have commenced 
Avork down here. Mr. Shrady and Mr. Casey have gone to a good 
deal of expense ; they have gotten their material down here for the 
foundation. And I Avant to say to the Library Committee that the 
commission has no doubt whatever that it can remove these trees 
and save them. There is only one tree, the large oak tree, that there 
would be any difficulty about, if there is with that, because the other 
(wo. the Beck tree and the Shepherd tree, are small elms — such trees 
as are moved around in the parks and everywhere almost every day 
in the winter. I have seen a great many of them moved: and Mr. 
Hicks, the gentleman who is here, has moved hundreds of these 
trees. T am told — I have not seen the gentleman myself, but the 
gardener of these grounds states that the trees that were moved here 
when the Capitol Avas built, and that Mr. Eichard Olmsted (the old 
gentleman) reported on. are still alive. 

Ml-. AA'ii.LiAM P. Saiitii. Oh, no: no. 

(Mr. William P. Smith entei'ed the committee room while General 
Dodge was speaking, and left at the time that the change was made 
to the room of the Coumiittee on the Territories.) 

General Dodge. At any rate, they were nhve when he reported on 
them at that time, in 1884, and out of the hundred and odd trees 
that Avere moved, a list of Avhich you can find here in the report of 
the S!i|)erintendent of the Capitol grounds (or T can leaA^e it Avith 
you), tliat report being made ten or tAveh'e yeai's after those trees 
Avere moved, there are only two of the trees thai were lost then, and 
lie said (iiey were poor trees Avhen they Avere moved. 

I think myself (and I have had some considerable experience in it) 
that the saving of a tree is simply in the method of moving it. I 
know some places Avhere they moA^e trees and saA'e them, and other 
places where they do not. It simply depends upon the method thev 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 11 

use in moving the trees. I think that we can move these trees and 
save them. Certainly we do not want to disturb a historical tree 
where we can save it; but it does seem to me that a great monu- 
ment to Grant down here is a greater memorial to peace than even a 
very valuable tree. 

Mr. Thomas. General, do you mean to say that these persons who 
have made protests against a change from this spot are wedded to 
that particular spot and no other in the Botanic Garden ? 

General Dodge. Yes; they do not think there is any other place in 
the Botanic Garden that is suitable. We have looked that ques- 
tion over, with a view to placing the memorial in the Botanic Garden 
and have it in accord with the Capitol grounds, and in accord with 
the condition when that becomes an open square, which it some day 
will. 

Mr. Thomas. When the fence is taken down? 

General Dodge. AVhen the fence is taken down. It is placed so 
that when Second street goes through it will be in that square. 

Now, gentlemen, you must understand one thing. In locating a 
memorial of this size, 254 feet one way and 70 feet the other way, 
you must have sufficient ground around it for its approaches, for its 
setting, and everything of that kind. All tbat requires at least, I 
should say. 500 feet on its long axis and 300 feet on its shorter axis. 

Mr. Thomas. I understand no work has been done at all. The 
ground has not been broken, has it? 

General Dodge. Oh, yes. We have spent considerable money there 
in installing the foundations, but stopped as soon as I received these 
dispatches in relation to these trees. I could not come here at the time. 
I was in the West ; and I therefore, at the suggestion of the Secretary 
of War, immediately asked the department of public buildings and 
grounds to defer any further action on it until we could come here. 
We have done nothing on the ground, because we have waited for 
whatever action Congi^ess might see fit to take. 

Mr. Howard. General, how does the location of this monument 
harmonize with the generally accepted plan for the improvement of 
that part of AVashington. 

General Dodge. Do you refer to the Senate plan ? 

Mr. Howard. I do not know. 

General Dodge. The plan of Washington ? 

Mr. Howard. It has a French name to it that I do not know how to 
pronounce. 

General Dodge. When we located it in the Botanic Garden we 
placed this so that it would be in accord Avith that plan. That is, the 
location of the monument itself in the garden was jjlaced so that if 
that plan was ever carried out it would be in accord with it. 

Mr. Howard. Is it now in harmony with the construction, say, of 
the new National Museum, down on the right hand side of an axis 
from the Capitol to the Monument ? 

General Dodge. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Howard. And the new Agricultural Department building, over 
on the left-hand side? 

General Dodge. Yes, sir; it is. 

Mr. HoAVARD. And other proposed improvements along in thai 
section ? 

General Dodge. Yes, sir ; it is. 



12 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

Mr. Howard. It is harmonious with that ? 

General Dodge. It is harmonious with that. 

Mr. HoAVARD. It takes that into account? 

General Dodge. After we got there and found this plan, we located 
our monument so as to be in accord Avith it. 

Mr. Sherley. Mr. Chairman, may I ask the General a question in 
this connection? Would the carrAnng- out of that plan in harmony 
AA^ith the monument as it is to be placed necessitate the remoA^ing of 
the roAY of trees that roaa' exists in the Botanic Garden? 

General Dodge. No, sir. Our location of the Grant monument 
there does not require the removal of anj^thing until the garden is 
opened as a public ])ark. 

Mr. Sherley. I do not think you quite caught Avhat I meant. Gen- 
eral; I did not. perhaps, make myself clear. In the carrying out of 
this plan that Avas suggested as a result of the Senate resolution, al- 
though not adopted by Congress, AA^ould it be necessary to destroy 
those trees that noAv run through the center of the Botanic Garden? 
_ General Dodge. Oh, undoubtedly. We never have paid any atten- 
tion to this plan, except so far as it just fitted our Avork there. We 
made our location entirely independent of that and Avithout regard to 
it. When Ave found that plan, Ave simply fitted our model to this part 
of it. HoAv it Avoidd aifect. Avhen that is carried out, the rest of the 
ground, I do not knoAv. 

Mr. Sherley. The committee did not consider that? 

General Dodge. We never considered it; that question never came 
up before, to my knoAvledge. 

Mr. THo:\rAS. Then it might necessitate other changes? 

General Dodge. Xo. 

Mr. Thomas. It might, I say, make necessary other changes. 

General Dodge. Xot of the monument. 

Mr. Thomas. If you locate it on this particular spot, according to 
Mr. Sherley's question (you say you liaA^e neA^er considered anything 
except the plan as laid down by the architects), it might necessitate 
other changes besides cutting doAvn the Crittenden and the Beck 
trees, might it not? 

General Dodge. No; Ave haA^e only considered this plan that he 
speaks so far as it affects this location. 

Mr. Sherley. That is Avhat I understand. 

General Dodge. Yes. 

Mr. Sherley. You have not considered anything else? 

General Dodge. No; Ave have not gone into the carrjnng out of 
those other plans. 

Mr. Smith, of loAva. I do not think a'ou understand each other; do 
yoii, (xeneral? 

Mr. Sherley. I do iu)t think so. AVhat I Avas asking you Avas this, 
General : AVould this plan, as you carry it out for the location of the 
momimciit at this jiarticnlar spot. i)robably necessitate other chauges 
ill the future besides merely cutting down all these trees marked on 
Colonel BroniAvelTs map here. 

(icneral Dodge. When that square is opened, of course that ground 
Avill be adapted to it. 

Mr. Sherlea". But it Avould not necessitate any changes imme- 
diately? 

General Dodcu;. No; not anv changes innnediatelv. 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 13 

The Chairman. Without dictatino: the order, perhaps it might be 
well to hear Secretary Taft now. 

General Dodge. Of course, gentlemen, whatever information the 
commission have Ave are glad to furnish you. We want to give you all 
the information it is possible for us to give. I have not gone into the 
matter more fully because I know your time is limited. 

Mr. Hamilton. I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, supplementing 
your suggestion, that we have these communications that bear upon 
this matter set out as fully as possible as a part of our record. 

General Dodge. I w^ll give them to the reporter. 

(The papers above referred to, which were furnished to the reporter 
by General Dodge, are as follows:) 

RcsohifidJi-s (i<]())it<'(J hij the \cir York Gomnitimh)!/ of Ihc Milihnii <)i\lrr of 

fjoj/al Legion. 

Whereas tliwe is an effort on the part of some of the i)ress and eiti/ens of 
Washington to force, tlie removal of the memorial to Gen. U. S. Grant from the 
Botanic Gardens in that cit\' ; and 

Whereas General Grant was a citizen of this State, a member of this com- 
jnandery, and its commander dnring the years 1SS4 and 1885 : Therefore 

Rcsolrcd hji tltc Xar Yoi-lc Commnmhry of ihr Military Order of the Loyal 
Lef/ioii. That the location of the Grant memorial in the Botanic (iardens in 
Washington meets our approval. 

Resolved, That the location of the Grant memorial is an ideal one, at the 
foot of the Capitol and on the axis of the Capitol and Washington Monument, 
with ample grounds surrounding it. It ha.s I'eceived the approval of the Super- 
intendent of Public Buildings and Grounds; of various expert architects and 
sculptors; the sculptor and architect of the memorial; the army societies; 
the veterans of the civil war; the Washington Chapter of the American Insti- 
tute of Architects; also of General Grant's family; and the memorial has been 
changed to tit the present location, which was made in lOOo and confirmed in 
1906. To ask its removal at this time is uncalled for and impracticable, and 
we earnestly protest against it. 

Resolved. That a copy of these resolutions be furnished by the recorder of 
this commandery to the Grant Memorial Commission and to the Senators and 
Representatives in Congress from this State. 



The following resolutions were unanimously adopted by the Society of the 
Army of the Tennessee at their thirty-seventh reunion at Vicksburg, Miss., 
November 8, 1907 ; 

•• Your committee, having had under consideration the report of the president 
of the society upon the Grant memorial, beg leave to report as follows ; 

•• The erecting of a Grant memorial in Washington was first inaugurated 
by our society in September, 1895, and by continuous effort of the Grant 
memorial committee the law was finally passed and appropriations made on 
February 23, 1901, and our society as well as all the veterans of the civil war 
take great and special interest in the location and final completion of the 
memorial : Therefore ' 

•' Resoled. First, that the location of the Grant memorial in the Botanic Gar- 
dens in AVashington meets our hearty approval. 

" Second, we find, as reported by Frederick Olmsted, the celebrated land- 
scape architect, on June 30, 1884, that mor.' than one hundred trees were trans- 
planted on the Capitol grounds, 1 foot or more in diameter with a loss of 
only two trees, and that the transplanted trees are still living and have grown 
more flourishingly than trees on the ground that were not removed ; we tliere- 
fore reconnnend that the three trees which it is desirous to preserve shotild be 
removed and replanted in some proiier i)lace. 

•'Third, the erection of the (Jrant memorial in Washington in a proper loca- 
tion is of far greater historical impoi-fance than the preservation of three trees 
which commemorate no important event and that have not even been known 
or connnented upon since their planting until now, and to require the removal 



14 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

of the lueniorial aftei' the consideration given the question of its location by the 
memorial commission, the Superintendent of Public Buildings and Grounds, 
the experts, the sculptor, and architect, and the changing of the memorial to 
fit this particular location, is impracticable, and we earnestly protest against it. 
" Fourth. We are opposed to any removal of the Grant memorial that inter- 
feres with the plans that controlled its location in the Botanic Garden and 
request the president of the society who is a member of the Grant Memorial 
Commission to earnestly oppose any radical change of its location. 

" Resolved, That a copy of these resolutions be forwarded by the secretary 
of the society to the Grant Memorial Commission. 

" O. O. Howard, 
" Mrs. Chas. H. Smith, 
" Smith D. Atkins, 
" Geo. H. Richmond, 
" Gilbert D. Munson, 

" Committee." 



November 12, 1907. 
Gen. G. M. Dodge, 

President, Gi^nt Memorial Commission. 
Sir : In compliance with your directions of October 28, 1907, calling together 
the advisory board of the Grant Statue Commission, I have the honor to report 
that the board met in Washington, November 12, at 10 a. m. 
Present: All the members except Mr. H. M. Shrady. 

The act of Congress approved June 30, 1906, provides for the location of the 
Grant statue in the unoccupied portion of the Botanic Garden grounds, between 
First and Second streets. 

In laying out the foundations of the monument, it appears that within the 
limits of the foundations are included several trees of historic interest. 

Public sentiment has generally opposed the destruction of these trees, and 
the l)oard was asked to consider the possibility of changing the site of the 
monument within the limits approved by Congress, so as to avoid the destruc- 
tion of those trees. 

The board after visiting the site and maturely considering the question are 
of the oiiinion that the site adopted should be retained. 

A slight change in location of the montmient would not remedy matters, as 
the trees would still be so near the monument that they would mar its appear- 
ance. 

It is considered feasible, however, to move the trees, and the committee 
recommend that the trees be removed to another suitable location. 
Very respectfully, your obedient servant, 

CiiAS. S. Bromwell, 

Colonel, U. S. Army, 
Executive and Disbursing Officer, (Iront Memorial Commission. 

ClIARLlvS F. McKiM. 
Frederick Law Olmsted, Jr. 
Edward P. Casey. 



Elmsforo, N. Y., Xovcnib<^r 8, 1907. 
Gen. Grenville M. Dodge, 

1 li roadway. New York City. 
Mv Dear Sir: I am in receipt of a letter fi'om Lieutenant Poole in regard to 
a meeting of the (Jrant memorial conunitteo to be held in Washington on the 
12th instant, and in rei)ly, may state that I will be miable to attend this meet- 
ing, as the second two lions are to be cast the beginning of next week, which 
will repiire my personal attention. 

I have nothing to add, besides what we agreed upon at the invvions meetings. 
I think the location was selected after a great deal of thought and considera- 
tion, and sec no reason that it should be changed at this late date. The matter 
is setth>d in my mind and I am sorry that I am obliged to say that I will stick 
by what has already be(>n agreed upon. 

These delays are interfeiMng with the progress of the monument, and I will 
be glad when I can go ahead with a free mind. 

Those who have started the agitation about a few trees have forgotten that 
the nation owes something to its greatest soldier. 
I remain, sir, yours, very respectfully, 

H. M. Shrady. 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 15 

Rcsoluli(»ts cidoptcd hy ihv WasJiiitijimi Chaittrr of thr Aiiicricdii Iiixtifutc 
(if Arcliitrrts. ydrimbcr I. HKtl. 

Washixcton CnAPTicR, Ami:i<r'an Lxstitite of Architects, 

TJic Oct agon, Wasliiiiytoit. D. C. 

In view of the recently j)ublis]ied exitre^setl eoninients niton the proposed loca- 
tion of the " (irant memorial " adverse to the site, and condemninjx the destruc- 
tion of trees, and a senoral denunciation of the whole plan of which the loca- 
tion of this monument is a pai't, it seems proper for a local association of men 
pi'acticiuj? a profession involving the study and decision of similar problems to 
express their opinion in regard to tliis criticism, und to point out what they 
deem <^o he misconceptions of the dominating plan, and inaccuracies regarding 
some of the details. 

We are in hearty accord with all efforts to preserve trees, both in the parks 
and streets, and will render all aid in our power to avert the destruction of 
any of them. AYe suggest, however, that records will sliow that trees can be 
moved with safety when occasion demands it, and we assume that due consid- 
eration was given to this question in the case of the location of the (Jrant 
monument, and that the trees under discussion were found by some competent 
authority to be unworthy of the labor involved to move tliem. We can under- 
stand and symitathize with tlie aversion to a cliange on the part of tliose who 
planted them and have watched them grow to maturity. It is a misfortune 
not only to these individuals, but to the city, that no guiding hand pointed out 
•■heir proper location, in accord with a general scheme for the whole extent of 
the Mall, in the lack of which se))arate and unrelated plantings have been dot- 
ted in it; these ])lantings having in each case their main axis crossing that of 
the Mall. 

We are in favor of tlie location of public buildings on the south side of Penn- 
sylvania avenue, which is a iiart of the plan as reconnnended by the park com- 
mission. We dei)lore the fact that this commission has not the legal standing 
to which its plans and its membership entitles it. and we regret that this primal 
recognition has not been given. 

To us. however, the dominating need is that the laying out of the roadways, 
parks, etc.. and the location of the public buildings, statutes, etc., shall be in 
accordance with a coherent and complete plan; coherent in that it shall pro- 
vide for the proper and seemly relations of the jiarts. one to the other; complete 
in that it shall provide for all the various needs present or anticipated for the 
capital city of a nation, promising the future that we look forward to for our 
own. 

This city is fortunate in Iiaving been born by such a i)lan, which has been re- 
viewed by a connnission composed of men whose qualifications can not be suc- 
cessfully challenged, and they have recommended its readoption. No otlier plan 
similarly considered has been iiresented. 

Therefore resolved. Tliat the Washington Cliapter of the American Insti- 
tute of Architects indorses most heartily the wisdom of the parl^^ commission 
in adhering to tlie original plan of L'Enfant.as indfirsed by Washington and 
Jefferson, and in extending its principles in their plans for the greater Wash- 
ington. 

That this chapter considers the vista treatment of the Mall, as contemplated 
by them, a return to first principles and by far the most logical, effective, and 
monumental treatment yet suggested, and that a strict adherence to their 
I)lans will give to the American people the possibilities for the most beautiful 
capital in the world. 

We affirm that, i)roceeding under a fixed plan, the amount of expenditure 
involved is less than would be required in proceeding as has been the custom, 
without coordination of the units or the cooperation of those controlling them. 

We are confident that the necessity for the adojttion of a comitrehensive i)lan 
will be generally recognized, and would call attention to the fact that when 
adopted the first step toward its fulfillment shall be the planting of trees in 
their allotted i)laces. for, while roadways and buildings may be constructed as 
needed, trees are the planting of one generation for the enjoyment of their 
successors. 

Resolved. That this expression of our views be sent to the honorable Secre- 
tary of War as the representative of the Government on the Grant .Memorial 
Coumiission in charge of the work of its erection. 

88185—08 2 



16 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

Washington Architectural Club. 
Ttcsolvcd, That the Washington Architectural Club adopt the resolutions of 
the Washington Chapter as an expression of its own views, and that they be 
publishe<l as such, and that the action of this body be communicated to the 
honorable Secretary of War and the proper authorities. 

Waddy B. AVood, President. 
Frederick Reed, (Secretary. 



Military Order of the Loyal Leciion of the United States, 

Chicago, December 9, 1907. 
Gen. Grenville M. Dodge, 

'Chairman Grant Memorial Commission, Neto York, X. Y. 
Dear General and Companion : At the stated meeting of this commandery 
held Thursday, December 5, 1907, at the Mid-Day Club, Chicago, 111., the fol- 
lowing resolution was adopted by unanimous vote: 

Resolved, That the Commandery of the State of Illinois, Military Order of 
the Loyal Legion of the United States, is absolutely opposed to the removal of 
the Grant memorial from the Botanic Gardens in Washington, D. C. 
Very truly, yours, 

RoswELL H. Mason. Recorder. 



Decemrer D, 1907. 

We, the undersigned, fully believe that the location of the Grant monument, 
at the point approved by the commission (consisling of Gen. Grenville M. 
Dodge, the Secretary of War, and the chairman of the Library Committee), 
is the most logical, dignified, and appropriate one within the I>istrict of Colum- 
bia, and, having been approved by two advisory committees of experts ap- 
pointed for the purpose, should be maintained. 

Daniel C. French, 
F. D. Millet. 
Herbert Adams, 
Karl Bitter. 
President liitrniational ^ctiliitois' 8ocirt]f. 
ii. A. MacXeh.. 

STATEMENT OF HON. WILLIAM H. TAFT, SECRETARY OF WAR. 

Secretary Taft. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee: 
T fear that in coming in at this late honr I may lack a knowledge of 
some of the details with respect to tlie question Avhich has arisen. 

The committees on the erection of most monuments in Wasliing- 
ton, under the plan adopted by Congi'ess, arc changeable committees 
in their personnel, for they include, usuall}'^, the chairman of the 
House Committee on the Library, the chairman of the Senate Com- 
mittee on the Library, the Secretary of War, and sometim.es a repre- 
sentatiye of the committee of the army society that is interested in 
erecting the monument. But generally the Secretary of War is on 
eyery committee of this kind, and therefore T am able to speak with 
some degree of confidence on the difliculty of selecting sites. 

Immediately that there is an objection made to one site, the argu- 
ment is advanced : " There are lots of sites in Washington Avhere a 
monument can be erected." I wish first to enter a denial that there 
are lots of sites for any such monument. We now haye, I should 
think, in the War Department some eight or ten committees, of which 
I haye the honor to be a member, that are engaged in hunting sites; 
and it is the most difficult thing that I know of to find an appropriate 
site for a monument. The number of sites that are suitable for the 
Grant monument is a most limited one. 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 17 

This site was selected before I came on the committee. It was se- 
lected by General Dodoe, Secretary Root, and I think your predeces- 
sor, Mr. Chairman, and probably Senator Wetmore. The site first se- 
lected, as General Dodge says, was on the axis between the T\niite 
House and the Monument ; and it was changed because it interfered 
with that beautiful vista between the back of the White House and 
the Monument, leading down to the Potomac River. This location was 
taken up and adopted — I am not quite sure as to what moved General 
Dodge to it, but I know it moved Secretary Root — because it 
fitted in so Avell with the proposed improvement of Washington. 
Now I know I am stepping on dangerous ground in mentioning that 
Senate plan, but I have not any hesitation in saying that so far as 
the War Department is concerned and so far as the head of that De- 
partment is concerned, the control that by law is given to the Secre- 
tary of War with reference to the public grounds, everything that the 
engineers do is done with reference to that plan. 

The Chairman. I doubt, Mr. Secretary, if yon put yourself in any 
danger as far as the committee is concerned. 

Secretary Taft. Therefore, when we came to determine on the de- 
tails of the monument, after it had been changed from the White Lot 
to this place, the committee of architects ^hich was appointed advised 
certain changes in the monument in order that it should not prove an 
obstacle to the vista between the Capitol and the Monument, in order 
that both sides should be adjusted to the position that it occupied with 
respect to the Monument. 

The question has been asked whether trees would have to he cut 
down if this monument is put there. The gentleman from North 
Carolina asked that question. The putting of the monument there will 
disturb only a certain number of trees, as I understand it. But if this 
plan is carried out, and if this monument is made part of the general 
plan, then, of course, trees will have to be removed. 

Now, I yield to no one in my feeling with respect to a tree. I feel 
as if cutting down a tree were like taking away a life. But, gentle- 
men, the question is whether we are to be bound by the place at which 
any man puts a tree with respect to subsequent improvements. I do 
not think the question can be met bj'' a general maxim that we ought 
not to move any trees. We must move some trees. We believe, from 
the expert opinions we have had, that these trees can be moved ; and 
doubtless in the construction of the Mall other trees will have to be 
moved. We will have to make an avenue through there, and you can 
not have a tree standing in the middle of a road ; and if you wish at 
any time a correct plan with a straight communication between the 
Capitol and the Monument, and there are trees in the way, those trees 
will have to come out. And therefore, to say that you can not move 
a tree is to say that you can not advance. 

On the other hand, we give every consideration in the monument 
committee to the saving of trees. We have done so with respect to 
Lafayette Park. There are some fine trees there that it has been pro- 
posed to move in order to put monuments at the corner ; and we have 
refused to do that because of a beautiful elm tree that 'stands just 
^ posite the Cosmos Club. 

These trees are said to be historic. I do not deny that in a sense 
they are historic; but they were not put there by direction of 



18 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

Congress, and tliev do not themselves evidence the hapenino; of any 
event at the j)lace. They are not like the tree of Appomattox. They 
do not evidence anything, except that by an arrangement between the 
Senator from Kentncky and the gentleman Avho had control this tree 
happened to be planted there at that time in memory of something. 
But, gentlemen, it is not evidenced by any historical record that I 
know of. It rests, doubtless, in the memory of man ; bnt it is not like 
a monument that evidences something authorized by the public hnv, 
as this memorial does. 

Therefore it seems to me, as between the two, that the one ought 
to yield to the other, reconciling them as far as possible. And as we 
believe that we can move those trees without injuring them. I respect- 
fully suggest that this act be not passed. 

(At this point, owing to the damp condition of the walls of the 
committee room, the hearing w^as adjourned to the room of the Com- 
mittee on Territories, in the same building.) 

STATEMENT OF COL. CHARLES S. BROMWELL, U. S. ARMY. 

The Chairman. Colonel Bromwell, will you tell the conunittee now 
about the location of the monument as related to the trees? 

Colonel BuoiMWEnn. Mr. Chairman. I am simply the executive and 
disbursing officer of this commission. I have no voice at all in the 
policy of what the commission reconunends or decides. I simply carry 
out its orders. General Dodge and the Secretary of War have spoken 
in regard to the policy of the commission, the reasons which induced 
them to locate this memorial there, the reasons they think it should 
remain there, and I do not think I can add anything to that. 

I have here a photograph of the memorial, which gives souie idea 
of its size. I do not think it is generally ai)j)i'eciated that the meuio- 
rial is 252 feet long, 72 feet wide, and 42 feet high, and therefore that 
it is necessary to have a reservation or a site at least 300 by 500 feet, 
and that the number of these sites, as Mr. Secretary Taft. has said, is 
extremely limited. 

This memorial will, I think, interfere with some eight or niue trees 
in all. of which three or four are so-called historic trees. 

The Chairman. 'J'his is the Capitol | indicating | ? 

Colonel T'jROMAVELL. Yes; this is the Cai)it()l. This is the limit of 
the Capitol grounds. This is First street | indicating on [)laii |. 

The Chairman. Is this the Botanic (Tarden? 

Colonel I^ROMWKLL. No, sir; these are the Capitol grounds. This is 
the Peace Monument; this is the Garfield Monument; this is First 
street; this is Third street. So that this plan shows the entire limits 
of the Botanical (Jrounds. 

The CiiAHniAN. About what is the area. Colonel, of (hose grounds? 

Colonel Bromwell. I do not know, sir. I have not the figures 
right in mind. It is practically two squares long and al)out two 
squares Avide. It is trapezoidal in shape. On this scale the momi- 
ment occupies a space of about that length [ indicating]. This would 
be the location of the momunent on this scale. 

Mr. Howard. There is now a Avalk from Third street to First street, 
is there not '( 

Colonel Bhomwem,. ^'es; there is now a walk from Third street to 
First street. 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 19 

Mf. Howard. The building of this monument with its long axis in 
that direction would of course close this walk up? 

Colonel Bromwell. It will cross that Avalk. It will not neces- 
sarily close it up, because the walks would be constructed around the 
monument. 

Mr. Howard. Yes; that is what I mean. 

Colonel Bromaveli.. So that a person would simply Avalk around 
them. 

The Chairman. The long axis is not at right-angles with the exist- 
ing walk, hoAvever? 

Colonel Bro3iavell. Xo; it is not at right-angles to the existing 
AA^alk. It is at an angle of 1 or 2 degi-ees. It is on this axis [indi- 
cating], Avhile the AA^alk is on an east-and-Avest line. 

Tht; Chairman. The Washington Monument is a little out of the 
line of the axis? 

Colonel Bro^iavell. It is south of an east-and-AAest line. In the 
city of Washington tlie White House, the Capitol, and the Washing- 
ton ^Monument are the three important controlling points. 

Mr. Conner. This is in harmoiiA" with the Monument and the 
Capitol? 

Colonel Bro^iavell. The center of it is on the line joining the dome 
of the Ca])itol and the Washington Monument. 

Mr. Sherley. "Which way is the dome of the Capitol building? 

Colonel Bromavell. This is the Capitol building, here. These are 
the grounds of the Capitol. This is First street — the diAdding line. 

Mr. Sherley. That is the Garfield Monument [indicating] ? 

Colonel Bro:mavell. That is the Garfield Monument ; this is the 
Peace Monument. 

(The plat heretofore referred to Avas put up on the AAall of the com- 
mittee room.) 

Colonel Bro:\iavell. The hiAA' authorized the location of this mon- 
ument in the Botanic Garden betAveen First and Second streets. 
After that Uiay had been passed I AA^rote a letter to the Secretary sug- 
gesting that the sculptor and architect of the monument, as AAell as 
an architect and landscape gardener of reputation, be associated 
AAdth me in determining the exact location of the monument. The 
fiA^'e of us had a number of meetings, and after consideration Ave de- 
cided upon this location. It is a point, as I say, on the axis betAA^een 
the Capitol and the Monument, midAvay betAveen First and Second 
streets Avhen extended. Second street does not noAV pass through the 
Botanic (xarden. 

We took into consideration the so-called Burnham plan, Avhich has 
been approved by the Senate, but has never been approAa^d by the 
House. This monument is located so that it exactly fits in with 
that plan. It Avas not our part to consider Avhether or not the Burn- 
ham plan Avas a good plan, and we did not take that into consid- 
eration. 

The Chairman. But you tried not to haA'e the location of the 
monument incongruous Avith that? 

Colonel Bromwell. Yes. We felt that if that plan cA^r should 
be adopted it Avould be a great mistake to have the monument in a 
location not in conformity Avith the plan. Our location, how(»ver, 
is perfectly satisfactory, and Ave consider it a very desirable loca- 
tion, Avhether or not the Burnham plan cA^er is approved. The Burn- 



20 GEANT MEMORIAL,. 

ham plan can be cut out entirely and our location of the monument 
will not be affected. We consider it to be the best location for the 
monument now. 

If the Burnham plan is carried out it uill necessitate the removal 
of a great many trees through the Mall. It is proposed, as you 
know, to have a roadwa}^ extending practically from First street 
to the Washington Monument. We did not consider that it was 
necessar}' for us to do anything at all with the trees around the mon- 
ument at the present time, because it is not necessary to do anything 
until the Burnh'am plan is adopted ; and when it is adopted the trees 
in the A'icinity of the monument will be a very small portion of the 
trees that Avill be affected. Our idea was that, locating it there, that 
portion of the Botanic Garden might very properly be thrown open 
as a public j^ark. The law already provides that the fence around the 
Botanic Garden shall be removed, and the trees and shrubs, and every- 
thing left there; and it will then simply be like any other park. 

As far as moving the trees is concerned, I think there is no ques- 
tion that the chances are that they can be moved, provided you are 
going to pay enough money for it. It is simply a question of how 
much money you want to pay to try to move a tree. 

The Chairman. Colonel, did you ever have any experience in mov- 
ing trees? 

Colonel Bromwell. No, sir; but I have looked into this matter 
very carefully; and if j'ou take sufficient precautions, all of which are 
measured in a money value, you can increase very much the chances 
of successfully moving trees of the size of these. If you adopt the 
ordinary way of simply cutting a trench 4 or 5 feet from the tree, 
and cutting off all the branches that interfere, and moving it in that 
way, you can well understand that the chances are very much against 
a successful moving. If you remove the earth 10, 15, or 20 feet from 
the trunk, and carefully gather up all the roots, and protect them, 
and move them, the chances of success in moving the tree are very 
largely increased. 

The Chairman. Is there anything more, Colonel, that you desire 
to say? 

Colonel Bromwell. No, sir. I am prepared to answer any ques- 
tions the committee may wish to ask. 

The Chairman. I think you have covered the ground. 

Colonel Bromavell. Secretary Taft and General Dodge have 
spoken of the general policy of the commission, with which of course 
I have nothing to do. Personally, I think it Avouhl be a great mis- 
take to let these comparatively few trees stand in the way of the 
location that we have selected for the memorial. 

Mr. Conner. I think you have said that if the I'urnhnm ])lan is 
adopted, it means oi)ening up a way from the Capitol grounds down 
to the AVashington Monument? 

Colonel Bromwell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Conner. Is that true? 

Colonel Bromwell. That is my understanding. 

Mr. Conner. Will this monument, if constructed, be an obstruc- 
tion to that? 

Colonel Bromwell. No, sir; because their original plan provides 
that at the head of that avenue there shall be a group of three large 
momiments or statues. This is practically the same thing, because 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 21 

the memorial is of such a form that it practically represents three 
groups — a large central group and two large groups on either side. 
So it fits in perfectly with their plan. 

Mr. Sherley. Colonel, would this affect the drainage scAver from 
the Capitol that now runs right underneath where the statue is to 
be placed? 

Colonel BRo:irwELL. I have no information that that sewer runs 
right imcler where the monument is to be placed. 

Mr. Sherley. HaVe you any information that it does not? 

Colonel Bro:mwell. I can not say that I haA e definite information. 
My impression is that it does not — that this monument is located on 
original ground. 

Mr. Sherley. Mr. Smith stated to me — that is my only source of 
knowledge — that it was right under Avhere the statue is to be placed ; 
and I wondered if the commission had considered that feature at alL 

Colonel Bromwell. We considered the course of the original Tiber- 
Creek, a branch of which ran there. As far as y\e could find out, it 
ran to the west of that; so that the monument will be located on 
original soil and not on made ground. 

Mr. Hamilton. How far down is the sewer you refer to? 

Mr. Sherley. My information is A'ery slight: but Mr. Smith stated 
that the sewer aa as right under this AA^alk that is noAv in the center of 
the garden, and that eA^ery now and then they had a leak from it which 
serA^ed to fertilize the trees, but did not serve any other good purpose. 

Mr. Hamilton. How deep, how far beloAv the surface, is the sewer? 

Mr. Sherley. Not very cleep, as I understood dt, though I am just 
speaking from a casual' conversation. Mr. Smith can perhaps tell 
the committee more definitely about that. 

Mr. Hamilton. Would it interfere Avith the operation of the sewer 
if the base of this memorial, Avhich I suppose Avill be ])artly cement, 
should be put around the seAver, and above it? 

Colonel Bromavell. Not at all. 

Mr. Sherley. Not necessarily. I simply Avanted to bring out 
Avhether that matter had been considered in this regard. 

Mr. Thomas. Now, Colonel, I want to ask you this question—I 
want to get the wdiole matter in mind. The location of the memorial 
on this particular spot does contemplate, at some time in the future, 
other changes in the Botanic Garden ; does it not ? Besides the cut- 
ting doAvn of the Crittenden and Beck trees it contemplates other 
changes ? 

Colonel Bromavell. Not unless the Burnham plan is adopted. 

Mr. Thomas. If the Burnham plan is adopted it Avill necessitate 
other changes in the existing Botanic Garden. Is that right? 

Colonel Bromavell. Yes; but the changes in the existing Botanic 
Garden Avould be so small in proportion to the changes that would 
haA^e to be made in the dcA^elopment of that comprehensive plan that it 
is not Avorth considering. 

Mr. Tho:mas. The Burnham plan contemplates a patliAvay fi'om the 
Washington Monument to the Capitol; does it not? 

Colonel Broaiavell. It is more than a patliAvay. 

Mr. Tho:mas. I mean, it contemplates an aA'enue? 

Colonel Bromavell. A roachvay. an a\^enue; yes. Tf the Burnham 
plan is adopted, this fits in it all right ; there AviJl be no changes neces- 



22 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

<-arv. If it is not a(l()i)te(l. it is still the best location in the city of 
Washington. 

Mr. Tno:\rAS. You think the trees can be moved? 

Colonel Bro.aiwell. I think the chances of success are greater than 
the chances of failure. 

Mr. SnERLEV. Colonel, would it not be necessary to inunediately 
remove the wall that now surrounds the Botanic Garden after the 
errection of this monument, to give the i^roper perspective? 

Colonel Bromwell. As far as the commission.is concerned, we have 
nothing to do with that ; but I think that as soon as the monument is 
erected there, there would l)e a popular demand to have that wall re- 
moved. 

Mr. Sherley. In other words, to have a proper perspective for that 
monument the wall would have to be removed ? 

Colonel Bro3iwet,l. There is no question that those Avails should be 
removed. 

The Chairman. I notice that Mr. Olmsted, of Boston, is here and 
can speak with authority of the Burnham plan, or what is called the 
Burnham plan. Whether that is the proper name for it or not, I do 
not know. Is there anything further that you wish to say, Colonel? 

Colonel Bromwell. Xo, sir. 

STATEMENT OF FREDERICK LAW OLMSTED, ESQ., OF BOSTON, 

MASS. 

The CiLvnniAN. "Sir. Olmsted, I would suggest that you now tell 
the committee Avhat you knoAv about this matter, especially with 
regard to the location of the Grant monument, and the general plan 
for beautifying the cit}^ in that direction. 

Mr. Olmsted. I think Colonel Bromwell has stated that A-ery 
clearly and simply. 

The Chairman. First. Mr. Olmsted, state Avhat your relations 
liaA'e been to this question. 

Mr. Olmsted. I Avas called in, along Avith Mr. McKim, by the 
Grant Monument Commission, to ad\ise with Mr. Shrady, Mr. Casey, 
and Colonel BroniAvell as to the precise location of the monument, 
and as to minor changes in the design of the monument to fit it to 
this particular location. I suppose one reason Avhy jNIr. INIcKim and 
I Avere called in to advise about that Avas that Ave had been concerned 
with the drawing up of the plan which has been referred to as the 
Burnham ))lan for the Senate committee some years ago. 

'I'he CiiAiRAfAN. Just Avhy is that called the Burnham plan? 

Mr. Olmsted. Mr. Burnham Avas the chairman of the committee 
of experts Avho advised with the Senate committee in draAving up the 
scheme. 

As 1 say. it seems to me tliat Colonel BroniAvell has slated A'ery 
clearly the relation of this pro])osed placing of the monument to that 
plan. If at any time, oi- in the course of time by degrees the various 
features of that plan shoidd l)e adojited in Avhole or in i)art. the monu- 
menl. if located as has been j)roposed, Avould find itself in harmony 
Avilh i(s sui-roundiugs. If none of the features of that plan afi'ecting 
this pai't of Washington should be adopted, it is a good site in itself. 

The Chairman. With reference noAv to this plan, Mr. Olmsted, 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 23 

was it intended that the phm should be carried out as an entirety, 
or was it a suggestion of ultimate development? 

]Mr. Olimsted. You refer to the general plan ? 

The Chairman. To the Burnham plan. 

Mr. ()l:nested. Simply as a general scheme. Of course it is en- 
tirely imjiossible, in any large undertaking like the treatment of a 
whole city, to forecast the future and the requirements and demands 
of the future with any degree of definiteness; but if no attempt is 
made to forecast the future at all, and successive improvements and 
buildings and changes, monuments, streets, etc., are planned indi- 
vidually and carried out from time to time as need arises for each 
particular piece of work, without anv hypothesis- as to what else is 
going to be done in the surroundings in the future, results that are 
inharmonious and relatively unsatisfactory' and inconvenient are 
pretty sure to result. What this general plan was intended for was 
simply as a hypothesis as to what would be about the best treatment 
for a great many different individual improvements within a large 
locality so far as the needs of the future can now be foreseen. 

The Chairman. That is, you are grouping the probable improve- 
ments in the future so as to have them all harmonious? 

Mr. Olmsted. So as to have them all harmonious. 

The Chairman. But you looked quite a way into the future? 

]Mr. Olmsted. We loolied a long distance into the future, and un- 
doubtedly some of the guesses. I ma}^ say, that we made as to the 
requirements of the future will prove to have been mistaken, and in 
so far the plan will have to be modified to meet conditions as they 
actually arise in the future. It Avas simply the best project that we 
could devise, with the limited knowledge of the future and the lim- 
ited skill at our possession, to meet the future. 

Mr. Ha:milton. That is. this committee devised a general scheme 
for improvement, and you propose to harmonize the improvements 
from time to time with that scheme as far as possible? 

jSfr. Ol:\[sted. Yes, sir. 

The CiL\n?MAN. It is a desirable thing to accomplish, to keep these 
improvements in line with it? 

Mr. Olmsted. It seems unquestionabh^ so. 

The Chairman. Now, Mr. Olmsted, what, in your view, are liable 
to be the immediate demands of that plan? For instance, do you 
think it is important immediately to develop up near Pennsylvania 
avenue, that side of it, and to secure that development immediately? 

Mr. Olmsted. That is purely a question of policy about which I 
have scarcely an opinion, sir, and about which my opinion is I'eally, 
I think, worthless. As I say, the idea of the plan was simply to 
form a basis for keeping in mind and keeping in harmony, one with 
another, the various changes and imi)rovements that circumstances 
call for from time to time, in the oj^inion of Congress! 

The Chairman. If you were called upon, for instance, in the pres- 
ent state of the develojjment of the city to locate new buihlings, you 
Avould be more ajit to locate them up toward Pennsylvania avenue 
than upon tlie other side of the ])lan? 

jNIr. ()L:\rsTED. I should think so, un(|uesti()iiably. 

The CnAiRAfAN. Do you not think that the southern i)art of the 
plan looks further into the future than the part that would lead along 
Pennsylvania avenue? 



24 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

Mr. Olmsted. Why, nii(|uestioiiabh^ so, because the Penns3dvania 
avenue side is the accessible side, and, naturally, in any large develop- 
ment the reasonable thino- is to develop the most accessible side first. 

In regard to the locality of the Botanic Garden itself, it seems to 
me that the suggestions of the general plan look very much, indeed, 
into the future there. The suggestion for the somewhat radical rear- 
rangement of the immediate vicinity of the proposed site of the 
(xrant inonument made in that general plan was devised to provide 
for the coming together at that point of a number of lines of improve- 
ment and development, and to make any radical change there until 
after those other lines of de^'elopment off to the westward are com- 
pleted, if they ever are completed, would be a mistake. 

Mr. Hamilton. Would you draw a distinction, Mr. Olmsted, be- 
tween a botanical garden and a park or a public place in a city in an 
essentially thickly developed part of the city? 

Mr. ()L:srsTED. I am not quite sure whether I understand your 
question. 

Mr. Howard. Take this particular part of Washington City where 
the Botanic Garden is now located. Would you draw a distinction 
between the uses that could be made of a botanical garden with a 
view to arranging it so as to be a part of the ornamental develop- 
ment of the city and its practical uses as a botanical garden for the 
propagation of rare and curious plants or species of plants, and 
things of that sort ? 

Mr. Olmsted. There is certainly a distinction there. It seems to 
me that a national botanical garden in the sense in which the Kew 
Gardens at London, for instance, are the national botanic garden 
of th*^ Britisli Empire is not well placed in this immediate locality, 
and the space there is utterly inadequate for a really adequate and 
scientific botanic garden in that sense. 

Mr. Howard. Then, logically and ultimately, the Botanic (irarden 
must go from where it now is!' 

Mr. Olmstead. As I say, considered as a national scientific institu- 
tion it is, I think, rather anomalous. To speak frankly, it seems to 
me that the Botanic Garden, as it is, is more in the nature of such a 
collection of interesting plants having certain individual interests 
of a horticultural sort or of a scientific sort as a gentleuian might 
have upon his private place as a matter of curiosity and horticul- 
tural interest, rather than a national scientific institute! 

Mr. Howard. Then if you undertake to make it hybrid, to partake 
of bolli natures, you nuist expect reuioval of trees and plants and 
things of that sort, and the interposition of walks, driveways, monu- 
ments, and other ornamental features? You must e.\{)ect tluit if you 
hybrid. i/e it. 

Mr. Ol.alsted. I do not (|uile understand what you mean by hy- 
bridizing it, sir. 

Mr. Howard. Suppose there is a sentiment that demands that the 
Botanic (Jarden be kept where it is as a botanic garden, and suppose 
there is a sentiment that demands that this monument be ])laced in it 
and as a part of it. 'J'hen when this monument has been placed in 
it, that is certain to gi\e rise to a feeling that there ought to be some 
further park arangement in it. As is now suggested, the ver}' next 
suggestion will be that you must take down that fence, which is an 
()l)st met ion to the better view of this uicniorial. One improxement 



GRAXT MEMORIAL, 25 

will suggest another, and you will have the two contending forces — 
the one to maintain the Botanic Garden, the other to make it give 
way, and become a public place, or part of the park plan of the city. 

Now, then, I say, as long as that conflict is going on, you hybridize 
it; yon have some botanic garden, and you have some park. 

Mr. Olmsted. It seems to me that at present it is, to all intents 
and purposes, a park rather than a scientific institution; although, 
regarding it merely as a park with interesting horticultural qualities, 
doubtless there are some changes Avhich it would be desirable to 
make. Those would naturally be precipitated, I think, by placing 
the monument there. I do not think, however, that they would be 
of a verj'^ radical nature. 

Mr. Sherley. Mr. Olmsted, have you examined the garden, and 
have you seen what specimens of scientific or horticultural interest it 
contains ? 

Mr. Olmsted. In a somewhat casual way, I have. They are quite 
numerous. 

Mr. Sherley. The reason I ask you that question is that you spoke 
of it as being but little of a botanical garden; and I wanted to know 
if that was the result of an examination, or a casual view of it from 
an examination in regard to this park plan. 

Mr. Ol^nisted. I do not mean to imply that for a tract of ground 
of that size, with the number of plants there are on that tract of 
ground, it has not a very considerable horticultural and botanical 
interest. There is a very considerable variety of interesting plants 
there. But I mean that as a national botanical garden it is simply 
a drop in the bucket. 

Mr. Sherley. It is insignificant, in other words, as compared to 
the Kew Garden in London ? 

Mr. Olmsted. Entireh' so. 

Mr. Howard. And because of its limited area it can not be made to 
approximate it? 

Mr. Ol^isted. Unquestionably. 

The Chairman. Mr. Olmsted, your business is the development of 
estates? You are a landscape architect? 

Mr. Olmsted. I am a landscape architect. 

The Chairman. You have had a good deal to do, I suppose, with 
the moving of trees ? 

Mr. Ol3isted. Yes. 

The Chair:man. Now, tell us about the probability. Have yoii 
seen those trees upon this proposed site? 

Mr. Olmsted. Oh. yes; I have examined them. 

The Chairman. A^iiat is your opinion of the effect upon them of 
attempting to move them — whether they can be moved safely or not ? 

Mr. Ol:msted. There are, as has already been said, only three trees 
directly affected by the monument to which special importance has 
been attached, as I understand. Tayo of those can be moved with- 
out difficulty and with very little risk. The third is a larger tree. 

Mr. Thomas. Which are the two first? 

Mr. Olmsted. The Beck and She])herd trees. The Crittenden tree 
is larger, and it is an oak tree. Oaks are not as easily moved as some 
other trees: and the moving of that tree woiild be attended with some 
risk. I think the chances are distinctly in favor of its being moved 
successfully if adequate precautions are taken. But moving large 



26 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

trees always involves a certain amount of risk, and I can not deny 
that. I tliink, however, that the prospects of successful moving even 
of the most diificult of the three trees are very good. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Mr. Chairman, mav I suggest a question to 
Mr. Olmsted ? 

The Chairman. Certainly. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. JNIr. Olmsted, if the Crittenden tree was suc- 
cessfull}^ moved, what is your judgment as to whether it would be 
more healthy in another location than that in which it is now ? 

Mr. Olmsted. The Crittenden tree at present does not appear to 
be very vigorous or healthy. I should not ordinarily advocate mov- 
ing it as a means of improving its condition, but unquestionably it 
would be benefited by a certain amount of pruning, root-pruning, and 
additional fertilization, improvement of the soil about it, if it Avere 
merel}^ a (|uesti()n of improving the condition of that tree where it 
stands. I think it not unlikely that the ti-ee might receive as much 
benefit from those operations, which would be incidental to nipving, 
as it would receive set-back from the process of moving itself, if ade- 
quate pains were taken, as compared with leaving the tree alone and 
having to improve the conditions about it. 

Mr. S:>riTH, of Iowa. Its roots are largely under the walks now, are 
they not, Avhere they are not accessible to treatment? 

Mr. Ot.:msted. It is pretty hard to tell just where they are, and just 
what the conditions are. I merety know that the tree is not in a very 
vigorous condition just at present. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. And close to a Avalk? 

Mr. Olmsted. It is certainly close to a walk. I do not believe it 
suffers very jnuch from that. However, it may. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I refer to the walk, and the consequent inter- 
fering with the treatment that might be given now if the walk were 
not there. 

Mr. Hamilton. Is that soil favorable to the growth of an oak tree? 

Mr. Olmsi'ed. I think the conditions are pretty good. The soil 
is better down there than up on the Capitol grounds, for instance. 
That is my impression. 

Mr. Hamilton. AMiat kind of an oak is this? 

Mr. Olifsted. It belongs to the white oak grouj). I examined it 
aftei- the leaves fell, and my examination was not a very careful one, 
but I took it for a swam]) white oak. But I understand that Mr. 
Sudworth, who is an authority on the specific differences of trees, 
said it was a swamp white oak of the South, which is a different 
tree — the swamp white oak of Texas, more conunonly known as the 
overcup oak, although that name is also applied to another different 
oak in other j^arts of the country. The names of the oak trees are 
inextricably involved. 

Mr. Shkulev. It is an oak that is indigenous to Kentucky, is it 
not? It is an oak that grows in Kentucky in a native state? 

Mr. Ol^lsted. If Mr. Sudworth is right, Kentucky is close to the 
limit of its range, if not Ix'vond it. 

Mr. Sherley. I am not positive, but I think it was grown from 
Kentucky stock — from an acorn taken from a Kentucky tree. 

Mr. Olmsted. That, I understand, is the tradition. 

Mr. Shrrley. It is not really a matter of tradition: it is a matter 
in the memory of one of the men who was there when it was planted. 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 27 

The CnAHJMAN. I do not understand Mr. Olmsted to mean that the 
tree Avill not grow in Kentucky. 

Mr. SnERLEY. Xo; he is suggesting that it came from the far south 
rather than to indicate that it was a native t)f Kentucky. 1 think we 
have a great many of tliose trees all over the South. 

Mr. Hamilton. The white oak has a pretty general range, has it 
not? 

Mr. Ol.msted. There are, of course, a great many sj^ecies of oaks 
growing in the white-oak group, and this is one of them. I do not 
pretend to be an expert dendrologist in regard to the specific differ- 
ences of the thirty-two oaks that grow in the United States. You 
Avill have to call upon Mr. Sudworth for information of that sort. 

]Mr. HoAVARD. Is it not more a matter of l)y what Congressional hiAV 
it grew in that place than by what natural law it grows there? 
[Laughter.] 

Mr, Sherley. It also seems to depend somewhat upon Congres- 
sional law Avhether it shall continue to grow there. [Laughter.] 

The Chairman. Ar^ there any more questions to be asked of Mr. 
Olmsted? If not. ^Ir. Olmsted, that is all; we are very much obliged 
to 3'OU. 

General Dodge, you said you had an expert on moving trees here? 

General Dodge. Yes; Mr. Hicks is present here. 

STATEMENT OF HENRY HICKS, ESQ., OF THE FIRM OF ISAAC 
HICKS & SON, WESTBURY STATION, NASSAU COUNTY, LONG 
ISLAND, NEW YORK. 

The Chairman. You live in Xew York, Mr. Hicks? 

Mr. Hicks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Have vou examined these trees upon this location, 
Mr. Hicks? 

Mr. Hicks. Yes ; I have examined them. 

The Chairman. Will you state anything that occurs to you in con- 
nection with this matter before the committee ? 

Mr. Hicks. The Crittenden oak is about 25 inches in diameter 
measured 3 feet frem the ground. It appears to be in a condition 
favorable for moving. That is, it is in its youth ; and I find that 
trees that are young and vigorous can overcome such slight shock as 
they may receive in moving. So. in my opinion, it is possible to suc- 
cessfully move that tree by aj^plying methods that have been used oil 
other oaks that are of very nearly the same diameter, and that are 
larger than this oak in the bulk of foliage; and the bulk of foliage 
Avhich a tree has is more to be considered than the diameter of its 
trunk in regard to moving it. 

I have a i)lan showing how I propose to move it, and a number of 
photographs of similar trees that have been moved, if you would like 
to see theuL 

The Chairman. The committee would like to see them, Mr. Hicks. 

Mr. Conner. What experience have you had. Mr. Hicks, in this 
line of work? 

Mr. Hicks. I have been working at it fifteen years. My father 
has been working at it for perhaps twenty or thirty years previously; 
and we do this thing verv largelv. We have a force of about 40 to 



28 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

70 men, about half of whom are operating on moving hu-ge trees. 
We have 10 large tree-moving machines that Ave send about the coun- 
try to move large trees; and it is a frequent matter for us to move a 
dozen, or in some cases a hundred, trees 30 feet high to ornament a 
private estate or a park. 

Mr. Hamilton. Where do you live, ]Mr. Hicks? 

Mr. Hicks. At Westbury. Long Island, about 20 miles from New 
York, in a region that is largelj^ given up to the estates of persons of 
great wealth, who use large trees in quantity for the adornment of 
their grounds. 

I propose to move this tree by timbers similar to those used in mov- 
ing a house. First, however, I propose to excavate out 30 feet or 40 
feet spread of roots. There [exhibiting picture] is a picture that I 
prepared for the Encyclopedia of Horticulture, showing- the method 
of excavating these side roots. That method is to start a trench out 
15 or 20 feet from the tree and dig down under the roots, which 
usually are at a depth of about 2 feet or 2|- ; dig under that, and then 
with a picking bar, which is simply an iron rod three-quarters of an 
inch in diameter, pick out and dissect out the earth, Avhich crmnbles 
to the bottom and is shoveled out. That wall be continued about to 
this point; and these roots, as I suppose, will be carefully wrapped 
with mud and moss and straw and burlap, or some of them will be 
put in boxes or troughs of soil. 

Then, to get under the central ball of earth of the tree, we propose 
to dig a series of tunnels about 4 feet wide and 5 feet deep, shoring 
them up with 2-inch plank, and in those tunnels put timbers which 
will be jacked up and moved on along skid timbers [these two tim- 
bers], similar to the manner of moving a house. If a tap-root or col- 
lection of deep roots is encountered under the center of the tree, it will 
be a simple matter to make those tunnels deeper and take a mass of 
earth as large as necessary below the center of the tree — perhaps 8 
feet deep and 15 feet wide. The operation then will look souiething 
like this picture, Avhere a tree is being moved on rollers. That is an 
elm tree, the roots of which are flexible. In the oak the roots are not 
flexible, and therefore we will keep them spread out in that manner 
[indicating]. 

There [exhibiting photogi^aphs] are some large 'trees that have been 
moved recently. Those were moved 2,000 feet for Mr. H. McKay 
Twombly. 
. The Chairman. What kind of trees are those? 

Mr. Hicks. Those are lindens. Here are some pin oaks. That is 
a pin oak that was moved about ten years ago. This is the same tree 
[indicating]. The tree when moved was about 18 inches in diameter 
and 40 feet high, and of 30 feet si)read, approximately. Here are 
three other views of the same tree, showing that that is a permanent 
success — that it has continued to grow at its normal rate, without any 
indication of debility or approaching death, or anything Avhich would 
lead us to believe that the tree will not live out its full natural term. 

Mr. Siip:RLEy. A pin oak is a tree of softer wood than this oak, is 
it not? 

Mr. Hicks. Yes; it is. 

Mr. SiiERLEY. And also of more rapid growth? 

Mr. Hicks. Yes. 

Mr. Thomas. What do vou mean bv its full natui-al term? 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 29 

Mr. Hicks. That may bo one hundred years or may be two hundred 
years. It depends upon Avhen a hurricane blows it over. 

Mr. SnERLEY. What would ordinarily be the natural life of this 
tree, supposing it had no accidents? Is this Crittenden tree a water 
oak — a swamp or water oak? 

Mr. Hicks. I consider it a burr oak or overcup oak. 

Mr. Spierley. ^^^lat would be its natural term? 

Mr. Hicks. Probably over two hundred years; because I have cut 
down similar trees and found them of that age. That [indicating] 
is a pin oak. There is a row of these pin oaks in our nursery. We 
moved those in, 40 and 50 feet high, to grow on and sell, and keep 
them there for a few years. 

Mr. Conner, Have you ever moved trees of this kind — what are 
known as white oaks? 

Mr. Hicks. No; because they do not grow in our neighborhood. 

Mr. Howard. They arc very vigorous — the most vigorous of all the 
oaks growing in the South. 

Mr. Thomas. I think they are easily transplanted, too. That is 
my understanding — that the water oak of the South is easily trans- 
planted. 

Mr. Howard. Yes. 

Mr. Hicks. Here is my catalogue, if anj^ of you gentlemen wish 
io look at it. The way in which we move these trees I am showing 
you is on a tree-moving apparatus on wheels, illustrated here, the tree 
being taken up by a cradle and the ball of earth in the center. That 
cradle is operated by screws, much the same as you would take a 
sapling in your hand to carry it on your shoulder, and a horse is put 
in front of it. But as this tree is especially valuable, I propose to 
move it in that manner [indicating picture], which w^ould give it 
every possible chance of success. 

Mr. Conner. A^'liat would be the probable cost of moving it? 

Mr. Hicks. I have not the figures for those timbers, so that I can 
not report on that. 

Mr. Hamilton. Could you give us an approximate idea? 

Mr. Hicks. I am sorry to say that I can not, because I have not 
those figures. I can give you accurate figures on moving some of 
these others which were moved hj the method we use every year. 
There is a large maple which was moved [indicating]. 

Mr. Hamilton. Wliat was the size of the maple ? 

Mr. Hicks. That maple is about 45 feet high and 40 feet spread. 

Mr. Hamilton. And what is the diameter of the trunk at the base? 

Mr. Hicks. About 17 inches. 

Mr. Hamilton. Hard maple? 

Mr. Hicks. Yes. That is another hard ma])]e [indicating]. 

Mr. Conner. Was that moved successfully? 

Mr. Hicks. Yes ; it has been living now in its new location for four 
or five years. 

Mr. Sherley. Is a hard nuiple considered a hard wood? 

Mr. Hicks. Yes. 

Mr. Sherley. In comparison to the oaks? 

Mr. Hicks. It is ? ml equal to it, or nearly equal to the oaks. 

Mr. Hamilton. It is a hard w^ood ; it is a fuel wood in the North. 

Mr. Sherley. Most of our maples are very soft wood. 

Mr. Conner. We have both kinds in the North. 



30 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

INIr. Hamilton. Yes; we liaA^e both kinds. 

The Chairman. Mr. Hicks, coukl yoii suggest some limit within 
which the tree miglit be moved? "Wonkl it be a matter of $5,000? 
Mr. Hicks. Yes: within $r).000. 

The Chairman. It woukl be within that? 

Mr. Hicks. Certainly. 

Mr. Hamilton. You stated that you knew the cost of moving some 
of these other trees of about the same size. Coukl you state what 
that cost was? 

Mr. Hicks. To move them on this truck, without that mass of 
earth, may have cost $200. But tliat mass of earth changes the opera- 
tion from an operation Avith a truck to an operation of moving 50 
tons rather than 3 or 4 tons; and as T have not the cost of those 
timbers, or just the number of chiys it woukl take to slide it, I can 
not state it to you. It is applying horticultural methods to the house 
mover's methods; and with the latter I am not completely familiar. 

Mr. Hamilton. It would come nearer $1,000 than $5. Mr. Chair- 
man. 

The Chairman. I simply wanted to get the limit. 

Mr. Hamilton. I was ho]:»ing that Ave might not get to the iqiper 
limit. 

The Chairman. We are not making a contract at present for the 
moving. I simply Avanted to knoAv Avhether the cost of that method 
Avould be prohibitive: that is all. Does any one Avish to ask ^Nlr. 
Hicks any questions? 

General Dodge. I Avould like to ask Avhether you have Avith you a 
list of people that you have mo\ed trees for successfully? 

Mr. Hicks. Yes. 

The Chair:sian. Mr. Hicks. Avhat percentage of risk do you con- 
sider there Avould be in moving this tree that you have examined, 
according to the method you propose to use? 

Mr. Hicks. Less than 5 per cent, or I might say less than 1 per 
cent: because I expect to go to such an expense and move such a mass 
of undisturl)ed earth as Avould support the top remaining on the tree. 

The Chairman. "Would you be Avilling to guarantee it if your 
method Avas resorted to t 

Ml". Hicks. Yes; I Avould be Avilling to make a guarantee — that is, 
T should Avant to charge a premium and take the risk. 

Mr. Hamilton. It Avould be cheaper for the Government to act as 
the insurer, Avould it not? 

Mr. IIiCKS. Well, I frequently guarantee trees at 10 per cent. I 
charge that to cover the risk, as T may have to replace them. 

]\Ir. Conner. What time of the year Avould be the best time to 
move it? 

Mi-. IIicks. Iu March or Ai)ril. 

General Dodcje. Please read a fcAv of the names of the different 
])eoi)le you have moved for and the number of trees. I think the 
committee Avould be interested in that. 

Mr. Hicks. K. L. Burton, of Xcav York; AVilliam M. Baldwin, of 
Garden Citv; AA^illiam II. Bakhvin, jr., president of the Long Island 
Eailroad: Edward Blount, of the firm of Edwards c<c Strauss; Hon. 
Oliver H. V. Belmont. Mr. Winthrop Bvrd, INIr. AVilliam Beard. Mr. 
George Bullock. Mr. Arthur Brisbane^ ^Ir. Paul D. Cravath. Mr. 
Hamilton C^irev. the Hon. W. Bourke Cockran, Mrs. A. Cass Canfield, 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 31 

Paul Dana, the late Charles A. Dana, the estate of Mrs. David 
DoAvell, Lonis A. Eldridge. Ralph N. Ellis. Mr. Roswell Eldridge, 
Mr. Elmer Franklin. Mr. W. D. Guthrie, of the firm of Cravath, 
Guthrie & Henderson. 

The Ciiatr:\[ax. jMr. Hicks, the committee Avill regard you as an 
expert, unless General Dodge wishes you to read further. 

General Dodge. Xo: I just wanted the committee to get an idea of 
Mr. Hicks's experience. 

Mr. SiiERLKY. Mr. Hicks, do you know anything as to the history 
of the removal of these trees in the Capitol grounds? 

Mr. Hicks. No; I am not familiar with it, except I understand 
that they were moved with a very small amount of roots, which 
would correspond to perhai:)s 10 per cent of the amount of roots we 
jiropose to take here, and if any failure occurred, I should have 
attributed it to the small amount of roots. 

]\Ir. Shkrley. You do not know anything, though, of your own 
knowledge, as to hoAv they were moved, or the fate of the trees? 

Mr. H'icks. I do not. 

The Chair:\ia>'. Does anyone else wish to ask Mr. Plicks any ques- 
tions? If not, Mr. Hicks, that is all. General Dodge, have you any- 
one else here whom you would like to have the committee hear ? 

General Dodge. I wish to say that Secretary root intended to come 
before the committee in relation to this matter, but he is not in the 
city. I desired his testimony ; he was on the commission, you know, 
when the location was made. 

The Chairmax. Judge Smith, have you anyone whom you would 
suggest that the committe hear now? 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I believe not, Mr. Chairman. I feel that we 
are a little in the dark until we have heard Doctor Smith. Of course 
we have gone ahead, now, with our side of the controversy almost 
completely, and if Doctor Smith is going to be examined we would 
still like to have the ]irivilege of offering additional matter before the 
conunittee after he gets through. 

The Chairman. Oh. undoubtedly. What the committee desires is 
of course, information upon the subject. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. And of course there has been nothing offered 
here at all on the other side. 

Mr. Sherley. I think Doctor Smith's failure to be here was due 
to a misunderstanding. 

The Chair:max. It was purely accidental, of course, 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I have no doubt at all about that. 

Mr. Sherley. He is very anxious — he is the most eager man to tell 
his side of the story. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I know he is; and we are utterly unable, of 
course, to rebut his side of the story until we hear it. 

The Chairman. Is there any gentleman present Avho came desiring 
to be heard this morning? 

Mr. Conner. Is there anyone besides Doctor Smith to be heard on 
the other side? 

(There being no res[)onse, the conunittee proceeded to an informal 
discussion as to the time of the next meeting.) 

General Dodge. I have here the report which I think was the An- 
nual Report of the Architect of the United States Capitol for July 

38185—08 ;-J 



32 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

1, 1884, where there is a full statement of the removal of these Capi- 
tol trees, and the names and sizes of them ; and a good many of them 
were of large size. I see here willow oaks of 3 feet 4 inches girth; 
pin oaks, 3 feet 7 inches; royal oaks, 3 feet 9 inches; white oaks, 4 
feet 7 inches, 51 feet high and 27 feet sweep. Here is an overcup oak 
that was moved at that time. 

(The committee thereupon took a recess until 2 o'clock p. m. of 
the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION. 

The conmiittee met, pursuant to the taking of recess, at 2 o'clock 
p. m., Hon. Samuel W. McCall (chairman) in the chair. 

STATEMENT OF MR. WILLIAM R. SMITH, SUPERINTENDENT 
NATIONAL BOTANIC GARDEN. 

The Chairman. Mr. Smith, the committee desire to hear you upon 
this question of the location of the Grant memorial, and especially 
they wish to ask you certain questions about the Botanic Garden. 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Your name is W. R. Smith? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You are the Superintendent of the Botanic Gar- 
den? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How long have you been connected with the gar- 
dens? 

Mr. Smith. Fifty-five years. 

The CiiAimiAN. You may go on and tell us anything that occurs 
to you in regard to the location of the Grant memorial and the trees 
that are immediately affected by it. 

Mr. Smith. Well, fort}' years ago or more, when the war was be- 
ginning and begun in fact, I was very anxious for peace and was 
very much infused with the idea of Mr. Crittenden's being success- 
ful, his resolution being passed, and in walking up toward the 
Capitol with John A. Bingham on the one hand, chairman of the 
Committee on the Judiciary, and Mr. Gartell, of Georgia, a partic- 
ular friend of Mr. Stevens, I said, '' Why can't I be the agent for 
bringing you two extremists together?'' Mr. Gartell said. "Mr. 
Smith, if your friend Bingham will withdraw his force bill and 
pass the Crittenden resolution, T will guarantee that Georgia does not 
go out." Well, turning to Bingham with all the enthusiasm of my 
nature, at that time especially, T said, '* \ow, John, now is the time for 
you to immortalize yourself." He said, "Well, I will see about thij 
business." And he came up and got into the storm center and camt 
back to tell me next day that it was no use. that no one man could 
control anytliing about it. That incident induced me to ask Mr. 
Crittenden and Mr. Mallory, his colleague and friend, Mr. Wads- 
worth, of the Counnittee on the Libraiy — and they were all in- 
timate friends — to bring from Kentucky one of the largest acorns 
they could find, and we would plant it where this conversation took 
place, in memory of his efforts for peace, even if they failed. It 
Avas planted: it lias gi-o\vn : it is a magnificent tree, and there are 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 38 

children of it over the four quarters of the Republic, and many of 
them in P2uropean countries. Three hundred of them are on the 
battlefield of Chickamauga, planted there by (xeneral Boynton, one 
of the bravest, grandest men of this Republic. Hence my ardent 
anxiety to save the Crittenden Peace Oak. If it is not destroyed, 
it may occupy the position as a peace agent two or three hundred 
years. 

The Chairman. Do you remember when this Avas planted? 

Mr. Smith. I do not recollect the exact date, but it was the j'ear 
before Mr. Crittenden's death. It can be easily verified. Another 
one, planted by Mr, Howard, of Michigan, is a still handsomer tree; 
of a different kind, however. It is a scarlet oak, and that is one of 
the trees that will be destroyed by the destruction, to say nothing of 
40 or 50 other trees, the two Morrils, both planted by Justin S. 
Morrill on that line. The Secretary of War very honestly stated that 
these were all to be swej)t away if this plan was adopted. These are 
trees that have been there, the two Morrills, and I might name 40 
or 50 others. 

The Chairman. Did 3'ou make a record of these trees; was there 
any record that you kept? 

Mr. Smith. I have a record of it. 

The Chairman. That would designate them? 

Mr. Smith. I have not put the names on them for a peculiar rea- 
son. They would be pulled to death. Sentimentalism goes too far 
very often, and the people take leaves. There were one or two trees 
with the names on them that people wanted a leaf — wanted a piece of 
it — so I have not named them, as I will now if they are allowed to 
remain. Mr. Beck's tree, adjoining Mr. Crittenden's tree, is an elm 
that was grown here. A^^len Mr. Olmsted was erecting the archi- 
tectural terrace that had to be destroyed. There was considerable 
sentiment about it. George Washington was said to have planted it, 
and I received the thanks of Mr. Olmsted for taking the roots and 
potting them, and one of them was planted for Mr. Beck and an- 
other planted for Mr. Alexander Shepherd. There Avas one of them 
Mr. Forney took to the public works of Philadelphia. Mr. Sargent, 
Senator from California, took one or two to California. Of course 
I do not know what became of these, but the sentiment exists with 
reference to trees in the minds of most scholarly people on the face 
of the globe. 

Now, I will speak about removing the Crittenden oak. Xo sensi- 
ble man, going to the spot, would contend for a minute that such a 
thing could be done. I was astonished at Mr. Dodge assuming to 
suggest such a thing. Go there yourself and you will see that it is 
simply a nonsensical statement. With reference to some of the other 
trees, there are several of them of which Mr. Forney and Mr. Forrest, 
the great tragedian, and an honor to America, brouglit me the seed, 
and I laid them in a flower pot and now they are nearly fifty or sixty 
feet high, standing there now as sentinels, telling their stories, leading 
people to think. My great countryman, Andrew Carnegie, is the chief 
agent of this peace question, but that tree will do more, if left alone, 
than all the publications he ever made, because it sets people to think- 
ing. There is an object lesson; can you get a better one? It came 
from Washington — that is a grand thought. It is a magnificent 



34 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

speciiiieii of the vegetable kingdom and leads people to think about 
higher objects, if you please. I am prepared to answer any questions. 

The Chairman. Now, Mr. Smith, when, if you know, Avas that 
garden established ? 

Mr. Smith. George Washington selected it as a botanic garden, as 
a part of the college scheme that he had. as readers of history know, 
and in 1822 an effort was made to make a garden of it. and a collec- 
tion of rare trees — native trees — was planted about the very spot 
where it is proposed to put General Grant's monument. That was in 
1822. It has been known as the Botanic Garden since before the Gov- 
ei-nment moved to this town, and I hear a good deal about L'Enfant — 
the L'Enfant business. The beginning of his scheme was on Third 
street, where he wanted a grand fountain or a monument, or some- 
thing else, and a straight walking leading through to the Presidential 
gardens. Instead of that, they borrowed money, and instead of the 
straight walk, they put a canal where people could probably indulge 
in the poetry of Venice and beautiful gondolas, and all that sort of 
thing. Solitar}^ and alone I put the ball in motion to fill up that 
canal; got a number of Members of Congress from Nashville to offer 
the resolution to fill up the canal and make a sewer at one end of it 
and a basin at the other, putting Andrew Jackson's remark to the old 
Mr. Blair that he did not want such a dirty, stinking ditch in the 
middle of the town when God Almighty had nuide such a beautiful 
waterway. 

The canal was filled up, the sewage was turned from that route 
through the sympathetic feelings of a great man, Thaddeus Stevens, 
who gave me the money to arch the Tiber filth. Eighteen thousand 
evacuations floating there was what you met as you went over here 
down to the market, and he gave me, without any report, $10,000 
toward arching Tiber Creek, and it Avas finished to the tune of 
$80,000. There Avas no report. ]Mr. Thaddeus Stevens said, " Xo, 
that is a nasty, stinking, dirty, filthy ditch, that should be filled," 
and he gave us the $10,000 because he could not get the yeas and 
nays on that, and now, to relieve that, it has cost a million. The 
relieving sewer, the largest barrel sewer in the world, relieves it, and 
they have just put another one down here, where the monument would 
go. Whenever there is a storm you can liaA^e sewer water of the vilest 
kind floating up, whenever this storm is met by high tide. We get 
the Avater coming out from the veiy spot Avhere you propose to put 
that monument. It is the loAvest part of Washington, put there pur- 
posely, made Ioav purposely, so as to give an elevation to the build- 
ing. So that, instead of placing General Grant's monument in the 
lowest part of Washington, why, such a general, of Avorld renoAvn 
as he is, should have the highest part, the most prominent part, and 
the proper part for a place for it is Avhere eAery citizen of the Repub- 
lic who comes here could see it, and Lincoln, his companion, in or 
near the new depot. There is the spot to put General Grant's monu- 
ment. 

I was astonished that General Dodge said that the coii)orali()n 
Avould not allow it. The corporation can not stop it. The corpora- 
tions are your agents; they can not stop it. That is the place for it, 
and I tell you. tlic Avhole civilized Avorld Avill back my statement. No 
man could gainsay it, that there is the proper place Avhere he should 
be seen by all visitors. Now, the sentimental side of the question 1 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 35 

have stated to you with reference to Mr. Crittenden. That senti- 
mental statement is over the world. There is the record [indicating 
book] from nearl}^ every paper of note. That hole is not the place to 
put the statue of such a man as U. 8. Grant, and it will not do to say 
that it is want of sympathy for Grant; that will not do. I have some 
of his personal notes, thanks for various little courtesies, and his 
right-hand man was my best friend — nobody was kindei- to me — a 
delightful man who lost his life down in Florida — was killed in bat- 
tle. I have been and I am an admirer of Grant, who was of Scotch 
descent : I am a" Scotchman and proud of it, but prouder still of 
being an American citizen. There is no doubt, gentlemen, but what 
yoti have an important question to decide. Decide it right. There 
was one great thing that aggravated me, the terrible desire on the part 
of these folks to have that thing fixed so that Congress should not 
have an opportunity of deciding it. That was not right ; that is my 
way of putting it. They proposed to tear up flower beds when there 
were lots of people coming to see the city from Norfolk, and I was 
anxious that everything should be left until that was over, but they 
said, '• Xo : hurry up. because we want this done before Congress 
comes."' Was that right ? I appeal to anybody. 

Colonel Bromwell. Who told you that!' We never told you. 

Mr. Smith. The folks had work there, the people had work there. 
Was it not so? 

The Chairman. AVhat is the design of this, ^Ir. Smith ? Is it 
intended, has it been your intention, that this should be a national 
botanic garden in the sense in which the Kew, which was mentioned 
here this morning, is a national garden of the British Empire? 

Mr. S:mith. No, sir;, I am a graduate of the Kew Gardens, was 
there for the regular number of years, and came here — might have 
been there my lifetime, ^ly namesake. Smith, said, "'What are you 
such an American for? If you will stay here we will do something 
for you." But I Avould not. and I came to this Eepublic, and I thank 
God tliat I came. I have beeii brought in contact witli the best minds 
m the best age of the world, and I am pi-oud of it. With reference 
to the KeAv Gardens, it is entirely different. There the great effort 
is to increase knowledge of botany. My great effort has been to 
disseminate it. Tlie dissemination of knowledge is a more important 
question to me, especially in a- republic, than pven the increase, be- 
cause its dissemination brings increase. And 1 have studiously done 
the best I could. You. sir, are from Iowa [sppaking to Mr. Smith, 
of Iowa]. There is where we put the Chinese sugar cane first in the 
soil of America. I got it from a Cuban in the West Indies, and it 
w as worth $500,000 annually to you during the wai". That is one of 
the results. Judge Mason authorized me, or nuthorized the clerk, 
lo send $40 for it, and I sent 80 bushels, especially at that time, 
before it became valuable property. With reference to various other 
things I could name a dozen. tAvo ov three dozen, that I have been 
instrumental in inti-oducing and disseminating throughout the length 
and breadtli of this country everywhere. Th.ere were about 12 
palms of a certain kind. Mr. Corcoran, the banker here, had one; 
I had one. a small one. I made a pet of it, attended it. and Ave dis- 
seminated 00.000 seeds and plants from that and Mr. Corcoran's 
palm, and to-day there is a man in Philadelphia Avith 1.000.000 jialms 



36 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

for sale, mostly of that character. Tlie dissemination of information 
is one of the most important, questions in connection with progress. 

I conld enumerate some of the other thin<£s. I gave some cuttings 
oflF one little plant to Mr. Henderson, a florist, and he admitted that 
he made $10,000 out of those cuttings. 1 gave a few of them to Mrs. 
Cannon, a delightful woman, to take to a florist out west, and he 
probably got $40 or $50 out of it — the difference between advertising 
and not advertising it. You know this florist business is not such a 
small thing as it once was. The florist pay $1,000,000 in postage 
and an equal sum to the express offices. My set purpose has been 
diffusion of such things as are for the people. I am a people's man 
and proud of it. 

The grandest product of this Republic to me is Abraham Lincoln. 
That thought was given me by a Confederate senator who said tliat 
he could not understand what on earth was the force behind it until 
he came to study him and he saw that Lincoln was the grandest force 
of the Republic, and I challenged him and said George Washington 
was, but he said, " Xo, George Washington was not ; he was a pro- 
tege of the English Parliament."' That grand character was to me 
a wonderful man in every way; his Scotch doggedness, stubbornness; 
Scotch in all his stubbornness. I have sometimes thought that Gen- 
eral Dodge had some Scotch blood in him, because he has consider- 
able stubbornness in him. 

General Dodge. I think you are right in j^our diagnosis. 

Mr. Smith. I have had his picture for thirty years, and his 
letter to me hastening the little things that I was going to give him 
for the decoration of his home, and I guess that helped to make him 
a grand citizen, because these plauts have a double action. The}^ are 
cherished because the}' come from AVashington, and we can not cher- 
ish a better feeling on earth than when we lead people from nature 
up to nature's God, the grandest religion on earth. 

Mr. Conner. Mr. Smith, do you think the garden an improper 
place to locate this monument? 

Mr. Smith. Undoubtedly; I think it is the worst place possible 
that could be chosen. 

The CiiAiiniAN. Where does the Tiber Creek cross Pennsylvania 
avenue ? 

Mr. Smith. On Second street. There is where the first $10,000 
was spent that we got through Mr. Stevens. 

The CiiAiR:\rAN. About how many specimens have you in the gar- 
dens ? 

Mr. S:MiTn. I can show by object lessons between forty and fifty 
thousand. Botany is not in the schools as much as it used to be, 
because young medical students are not compelled to study botany. 
Their examinations are done without it. 'I'lirongh Mr. ^lorrill. of 
Maine, Ave offered to the various colleges the opportunity to have 
their classes study botany there, I to be denumstrator. The Howard 
University came first, and that stopped all the remainder — that ter- 
rible prejudice, you know — ^that stopped them; stopped the other 
colleges ^rom accepting the invitation, and that stopped the whole 
business, because they did not continue. We have a nice room for 
students, and the plants can be moved there and examined as the 
lectui-er would want, but they do not do it. So, then, I have fallen 
back again into disseminating them over the length and breadth of 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 37 

the Republic through the Eepresentatives of the people. That is 
my aim and object, chiefly. 

The Chair^iax. How many trees are there in the garden ? 

Mr. Smith. There are three or four hundred trees, and then there 
are any quantity of ligneous plants; that is, permanent plants, such 
as I gave to General Dodge to decorate his home. 

;Mr. Conner. Do vou think this ground is lower than the other 
part? 

Mr. Smith. Four feet above tide, the lowest part of "Washington; 
made Ioav by Governor Shepherd's suggestion that he must lower it 
so as to elevate the buildings; and the best part of the scheme that 
Mr. Olmsted laid out is to be destroyed, as I understand, by this 
scheme of making those ells on to this lovely Capitol, with all its 
simplicitv and grandeur. He wants no such things as ells attached 
to it. ' 

Mr. Conner. Water does not stand on this ground, does it. — the 
surface water? 

Mr. Smith. Xo : it passes away when the tide does. The tide ebbs 
and flows under the place where you propose to put Grant's monu- 
ment twice a day. 

The Chairman. Do you know the location of the Capitol sewer 
with reference to this site? 

Mr. SiNiiTH. It goes right through it. 

The Chairman. Does it follow the line of the walk? 

Mr. Smith. It follows the line of the walk, and there are two holes. 
I have just shown your 3'oung clerk where I have seen it rise up to 
that height [indicating] . 2 or 3 feet — 2 feet anyhow. "\^^ienever a high 
tide meets a storm then there is trouble. One of the results of this 
scheme Avould be to get rid of that sandstone and get granolithic 
walks, because they would be easier to clean off when it comes. There 
is no doubt they have not reached the troublesome spot. They dug 
some places for the foundations on the driest part of the whole 
ground. I have hauled in .■)00 loads of stuff into that yard. It is, in 
some places, within IT feet of a fill, and it is all artificial except where 
they have dug. On the outside you would find it different. It just 
suits that tree, the Crittenden tree. It will live there 200 years, I 
hope, in spite of my distinguished friend's effort to destroy it. I in- 
tended to bring up with me — but I came in a hurry this time — an oak 
staff cut from a tree 300 years old. Some time ago some one cut that 
from an oak and some of his descendants gave it to me. 

I have no sympathy with vandalism of any kind. Three hundred 
years old was that Wallace oak, and part of it is in the Burns's collec- 
tion of your humble servant. I am very fond of curios and I am 
especially fond of good men when they are right : I am diametrically 
opposed to them when they are wrong. As I said before, I am proud 
of the opportunity to have associated with the elite of this nation. 
A man came down to the gardens the other day, sometime ago, and 
with him one of his constituents, pretty put on. And I made a mis- 
take. I said, '' I beg your pardon, sir, are you a Member of Con- 
gress? " He said, " Xo, thank God." I said, " You are a very ignor- 
ant man and do not know Avhat you are talking about. There is a 
case of history. Xame a period Avhen as much has been done for the 
industrial order of mankind in the country I am proud to belong to, 
as has been done in the ninety vears these folks have been assembled." 



38 GRANT MEMORIAL, 

Of course, the next day I had to apologize for being a little rude to 
the constituent, but the Member of Congress said, " Oh, ^^mith, you 
must excuse him; he had made an argument before our conmiittee 
and lost his case, and that changed his whole nature." 

Mr. THo:\rAS. Have you an}' idea whether this Crittenden tree 
could be transplanted ? 

Mr. Smith. No; no sane man would propose it for a minute. If 
you want to destroy it, cut it down, but do not attempt to transplant 
it. Do not waste public money on it. Just look at what poor Mr. 
Olmsted did. There is the man who can tell how inany of the trees 
that have been moved are dead. Where is that grand tree, one of the 
most magnificent, finest specimens on the globe ? Mr. Sumner had a 
fondness for trees. He said to me : " In traveling in the cars, my eye 
constantly looks out to see if I can see a handsomer specimen, and it is 
seldom you see it." " But," he said, " there is one east of the Capitol. 
I want you to go and take a look at it;" and he sent Mr. Bingham 
to see if I could give him the botanic name of it. He made a speech, 
trying to save it, but where is it ? Snuft' boxes and other things are 
made from it. It is dead, and nearly every other one, too. Ten j^'ears 
ago I made this statement in Boston, that none of the big trees that 
they made an effort to save, should not be carried away, but just low- 
ered. They are all dead. I regret to say it, but they are all dead. I 
am glad to say it, because I want that fact to go over the length 
and breadth of this Republic so that the people will not waste their 
money trying to transplant big trees when it takes just as long for 
young ones to get up as for old ones to die. 

The young tree that I planted for Mr. Bingham is the handsomest 
tree in the garden. John A. Bingham was my particular, pet friend, 
and he and Mr. Sumner used to walk over and take a look at that 
tree, and I gave him a name for it. And there, down in the gardens, 
not in the line of the destruction, but not far from it. where your 
marks are destroying everything, there is Binghaui's tree, and T have 
500 of them for distril^ition in ])ots to-day to the select citi/ens of 
the Ivepublic. I call it the Bingham-Suniuer tree, because they used 
to quote '* Tu patulae recubans sub tegmine fagi." 

You must excuse my Scotch; it is not very good Latin. Yon. know 
Mr. Sumner was a very fine scholar. One of these trees Mr. Sumner 
had by his house here doing pretty well. There are anywlu-re and 
everywhere relative trees of this peace oak. Tliere is no subject so 
grand ; no subject so important to-day, as tlio question of peace, what- 
ever you do to-day. 

Mr. SMrni. of Iowa. May T ask Mr. Smith a (question? 

The CiiAjiniAN. Certainly. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. AMien did the Botanic (iarden so t'oi- take 
shape as to have a superintendent, do you know? 

Mr. Sairrii. About two years before I came here. 

Mr. SMrrH, of Iowa. You have j)ractically been in charge of this 
from its inception, have you not? 

Mr. S.-NiiTii. Afr. liockworth, a very al)le man. uhmiI ai'ound the 
Avorld Avith Captnin Hicks, and the result \v;is that they brought 
home a very largt> collection of plants. 

Mr. Sahtii. of Iowa. But you say it never existed as an orijaniza- 
tion with a superintendent until two vears before you took charge 
of it? 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 39 

Mr. Smith. No: you uiulerstaiid. it was named ou the luaj). 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I know about the map: but the fir,~t was two 
years before you were superintendent? 

Mr. Smith. I came to be assistant. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Now, you understand that this statue, espla- 
nade, or whatever may be the proper name for it, is 4i feet above the 
level of the streets? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. And the garden where you sj^eak of the tide 
coming up is below the level of the street now I 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Mr. Smith, of loAva. So that you do not mean that the committee 
shall understand that the tide could ever possibly rise 

Mr. Smith. And flood it. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa (continuing). And flood it, except the founda- 
tion of it, of course. 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

Mr. S:mith. of Iowa. But it would be far below the platform \ 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Six or 8 feet below the platform? 

Mr. Smith. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Smith, of low^a. Now, you have the impression. Doctor, that 
nearly all the trees that Mr. Olmsted transplanted died? 

Mr. Smith. Oh, yes: nearly everyone. That rare one especially 
and a great many others. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. That is the impression on your mind, that 
nearly all of them died ? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Doctor, you have devoted your entire life to 
the subject of botany? 

Mr. Smith. Cultural botany. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. But you never, in fact, have made any pi-acti- 
cal, personal experiments in moving trees to any extent, have you \ 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir ; I gave Mr. Olmsted a good man}' trees. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. And he was doing the moving. I say, j'ou 
are not a practical man in moving the trees yourself: you have had 
no practical experience in that, have you? 

Mr. Smith. I have only been superintendent of 80.000 trees being 
planted in the city of AVashington. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Ye-?, but they were yoimg trees. 

Mr. Smith. Young trees. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I am asking you now whether you ever had 
personal charge, made a special study, of the moving of large trees? 

Mr. Smith. I have made a special study of it everywhere. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. By reading of it? 

Mr. S:mith. By reading of it. You take the trees of jNlr. ( )hnsted, 
planted in parks. I went to Paris, especially, and I made a special 
stud}^ of the wdiole question. My first occupation was moving big 
trees, and I went back to see the biggest trees that were moved when 
I was an apprentice boy. They were living: they never had flour- 
ished, blit the little ones that I and my companion took charge of, our 
own trees, Avere growing. Chicago })aid $40 a tree, and they wotdd 
not die and they would not live, and their experience has been im- 
mense in the wasting of public money in connection with that. 



40 GRANT MEMORIAI;. 

Mr. Smith, of loAva. So your study has been entirely a theoretical 
one? 

Mr. Smith. A practical one. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. You never have studied and tried to devise 
methods of moving big trees? 

Mr. Smith. No; because I never believed in it. 

Mr. Smith, of' Iowa. Because you never believed in it? 

Mr. Smith. No. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Have you ever had any occasion to examine 
the system of ]\Ir. Hicks as recommended by the Agricultural Depart- 
ment? 

Mr. Smith. He is an elegant man. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. And very noted in his business, is he not? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. sir; and I have been to see him. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. And you say the trees he has planted have 
died or failed to prosper? 

Mr. Smith. They do not succeed as well as younger ones. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Oh. maybe not. but they have prospered. 

Mr. Smith. They have. Mr. Hicks is one of the most talented 
men in that line of business. 

The Chair:man. Is there anything more you want to say to the 
committee ? 

Mr. Smith. Xo. sir. I hope I have convinced those gentlemen of 
their mistake., and will be delighted if I have. 

Mr. SiNiiTH. of Iowa. How^ large is this type of tree, this Crittenden 
tree, when it is full grown ; how big in diameter? 

Mr. Smith. I do not know ; you can go and see it. 

Mr. SiNiiTH, of Iowa. I do not mean this tree; I ask how large they 
grow. 

Mr. Smith. Oh. iunnense. 

Mr. S311TH, of Iowa. Six or 8 feet? 

Mr. Smith. Oh, yes; and it is in fine health. That tree one hun- 
dred years from now. if you folks have nothing to do with it, may 
be one of the grandest exhibitions in the city of Washington. 

Mr. Smith, of low^a. (xrowing to fi or 8 feet in diameter, possibly? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. Unfortunately I had to cut off a little ])iece of 
it, -which I did not want to do. 

The Chairman. That is all. Mr. Smith. Tlie coiuuiittee is very 
much obliged to you for coming. 

STATEMENT OF MR. FREDERICK LAW OLMSTED. 

Mr. Olmsted. Mr. Chairman. I should like to say a word correct- 
ing, if I may. Doctor Smith's statement about the mortality among 
those trees which were moved by my father on the Capitol grounds. 
Mr. Cogan. wlio Avas in charge of the grounds then and has been in 
charge since, can give you definite information about that better than 
anybody else. I tliink. But I miglit say tliat of those that were men- 
tioned specifically there was a list of 22 in the rejiort of the archi- 
tects of the Capitol in 1884. about ten years after the moving Avas 
done, eight or ten years, and that gave statistics in regard to 22 of 
the trees, most notal)le because of their size and for other reasons. 
There are no records, pi-ecise records, of the dimensions or num- 
ber or kind of the other trees, except the records which remain in Mr. 



GRANT MEMORIAL, 41 

Cogan's memory, who kneAv of the trees when they were planted. Of 
those 22 that were listed in the report of 1884. all are now alive with 
the exception of 1. which was injured a few years ago and had to be 
removed, the injury having no connection, of course, with the matter 
of the tree having been removed twenty-five years before. The aver- 
age size of the 22 in 1884 was 4 feet IJ inches in girth, and their 
average size to-day is feet 10 inches iu girth. Some of them are 
not in perfect condition ; some are very handsome. 

The Chairman, Do the records show what the size was at the time 
they were removed ? 

Mr. Olmsted. Unfortunately, there are no definite records, so far 
as I know. They may exist in the archives at the Capitol. 

Mr. Smith. I would like to ask about the Sumner tree; how long 
did it live? 

Mr. Oljisted. Mr. Cogan can answer any of these particulars. 

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM J. COGAN. 

Mr. Cogan. I will answer the question about the Sumner tree. 
The Sumner tree was left on what I term a pinnacle, a very small 
knoll, right in the center of the lawn in front of the Senate end. It 
grew there for about four years, and the lawn was graded up, but it 
looked badly and the grading was condemned by a great many peo- 
ple, for the sight of this little tree standing on an eminence by itself 
was very unsightly, and under the direction of the Committee on 
Public Buildings and Grounds at that time, and with Mr. Olmsted's 
consent, we undertook to have the tree lowered, and I did lower the 
tre^, and it lived, after lowering it, for about five or six years, and 
then died. But it never was very healthy after it was moved. 

Mr. Conner. How old was the tree when you lowered it? 

Mr, Cogan. The tree at that time. I think, Avas 25 or 30 years old, 
I think I remarked in moving that tree about it having no fiber, very 
little roots. The clay was a stiff, very hard clay sod. and there were 
no roots at all to the tree. 

Mr. Smith. Was it not the handsomest tree in the city of Wash- 
ington at that time? 

Mr. Cogan. It was a very handsome tree, I admit. I have trees in 
my grounds to-day that I got from you, sir. 

Mr. Smith. Exactly. 

Mr. Cogan. We have trees that you gave Mr. Olmsted from the 
Botanic Garden, and they are healthy now. 

Mr. S^iith. They were very young 

Mr. Cogan. Xot so very young, at all. 

Mr. Smith (continuing). And trained to move, taught to move. 

Mr. Cogan. Not so very young. 

The Chairman. ]\Ir. Olmsted, have you finished what you were 
starting to say? 

Mr. Olmsted. I was just to ask if Mr. Cogan coidd say about how 
many trees were moved and about what jjroportion of these trees are 
now living and in vigorous c(mdition t 

Mr, CoGAN, I could not answer that question accurately. There 
were quite a number of trees moved, and some of those trees that 
were moved were cut down afterwards in their full vigor, because 
they happened to be out of place, and then the storms came along and 



42 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

broke doAvn several of them. I can show these trees where the stomis 
ahnost uprooted them; I can show you some tx)-day, some on the 
north side and some on the south side. And some lindens were badly 
used up by the storms and they had to be removed, and, I suppose, 
were. As well as I can recollect now, I think there were not more 
than fifteen trees altogether, of the lot that was moved, that died. 

Mr. Conner. How many were moved? 

Mr. CoGAN. I suppose 150 or 200. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. You ssij that not more than fifteen died; 
you mean they died as a result of the moving? 

Mr. CoGAN. No, sir; not as a result of moving, but died from the 
time they were moved up to the present time. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. In a lapse of something like twent3'^-five or 
thirty years? 

Mr. CoGAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Some of them were blown down ? 

Mr. CoGAN. Some of them, yes. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Did the wind blow down any of the trees that 
were not moved at all? 

Mr. CoGAN. There were not many trees that were not moved. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Is there any reason to believe that the mov- 
ing had weakened them so that they were blown doAvn ? 

Mr. CoGAN. I do not think so. 

Mr. Hamilton. Were they blown down by the roots, or were they 
broken down ? 

Mr. CoGAN. They were broken down. 

Mr. Hamilton. So that the roots were solid in the earth ? 

Mr. CoGAN. The roots were in the ground ; yes. There is a very 
good specimen of that work by the storm right at the corner oppo- 
site the Coast Survey, an elm that I called Mr. Olmsted's attention 
to a little while ago. It cut the elm tree right in two, and it was 
sawed off and it is a good tree now. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I would like to ask if at the time of the mov- 
ing of these trees by Mr. Olmsted the art of moving trees had been 
developed so as to carry the vast quantity of earth that Mr. Hicks 
carries with his trees now? 

Mr. CoGAN. Yes; I suppose it has been developed since I moved 
those trees, but then I used to move very large balls. I take a ball 
of earth 7 or 8 or feet in diameter, sometimes 11 feet, according to 
the size of the tree. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Now, if the party moving them went out 30 
feet from the tree and built a framework under the tree and carried 
it just as they would a house, Avould that improve the chances? 

Mr. CoGAN. "V\^iy, certainly: the bigger the ball the less the hurt 
to the tree. 

Mr. Hamilton. If you ha\'e had occasion to observe from your 
observation, does the diameter of the tree that is moved differ from 
the diameter of a tree that has not been moved? Is there any differ- 
ence in the fiber of the tree; is it any bigger; is there any less sap, or 
anything of that sort? 

Mr. CoGAN. There may be less sap for a year or tw(\ until the tree 
gets Avell established, but I do not think there is any difference in 
the wood : I never noticed any. 



GKANT MEMOEIAL. 43 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Mr. Cogan, are you familiar with this map 
[exhibiting map to witness] ? 

Mr. Cogan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. What is that map^ 

Mr. Cogan. It is a map of the United States Capitol grounds. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Does it show where those trees were moved? 

Mr. Cogan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Is there any way in which they can be iden- 
tified as moved trees as distinguished from trees that have not been 
moved ? 

Mr. Cogan. Yes. sir. 

Mr. S:mith. of loAva. Show the committee how they could be dis- 
tinguished ? 

Mr. Cogan (referring to map). The trees that have been moved 
are marked with red pencil. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. AA^ien you say moved, you mean after they had 
become considerable-sized trees? 

Mr. Cogan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Conner. How large were the largest of them ? 

Mr. Cogan. The largest one. ten years after it was planted, was 6 
feet 5 inches. 

Mr. Conner. That is in circumference? 

Mr. Cogan. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Conner. Wliat kind of a tree w^as that? 

Mr. Cogan. An elm. 

Mr. Conner. What was the size of this Sumner tree that you spoke 
about when it was moved ? 

Mr. Cogan. It was not more than 10 inches in diameter. 

Mr. Conner. At the time it was moved ? 

Mr. Cogan. Yes, sir. 

JSIr. Smith. But it was spread out. 

Mr. Cogan. Yes, sir; but the diameter of the tree was very small, 
not more than 10 inches, if that much. 

Mr. Conner. Not so large as some others, then ? 

Mr. Cogan. Xo, sir; but there are better specimens on the grounds 
to-day of the same kind. 

Mr. Hamilton. Wliat timber was the Sumner tree, what kind of 
timber ? 

Mr. Cogan. It was a hornbeam, European hornbeam. 

The Chair:man. Mr. Smith, did I understand you correctly to say 
that there Avas an excavation at this end of the garden so as to give 
the Capitol greater relative height? Is this end of the garden arti- 
ficially excavated and made low ? 

Mr. Smith. Xo ; even'thing has been filled up. 

The Chairman. I understood you to say that they excavated this 
end. 

Mr. Smith. Xo; they left it low, but the other end I filled up 7 
feet. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I desire to oft'er a few suggestions for the use 
of the committee before we close. 

The Chairman. Certainly; we are glad to hear from you. 

Mr. S:mith, of loAva. I do not know that I can add greatly to the 
knowledge of the committee, but I do feel that this committee ought to 
go and see the magnitude of this project. This great memorial, 250 



44 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

to 260 feet lon<i;,can not be located in any considerable number of places 
suitable in this District. T state it n])on the authority of Gen. F'red 
Grant that <>:entlemen have written him ur<rinof the location of this 
in other parts of the city, believino- that it \A'ould promote the prop- 
erty values in those localities. There are those here who would like 
to see this moved because they would like to see the Government buy 
some more land. Our dear friend. Doctor Smith, whom we all re- 
gard so hiiihly, would like to see it moved, because it seems to trench 
upon his preserves, in a measure, and T am not criticising harshly 
these gentlemen who, from one motive or another, want to move this 
memorial. But the fact is. General Grant does not need a memorial 
so far as he is concerned. This memorial is simply an evidence of 
our npi^reciation of (rrant. Such a testimonial nmst not be given 
in a spirit indicating that we are unwilling to sacrifice small things 
in order to do it. The Grant memoi'ial. after once being ordered by 
Congress, has been buffeted all about this city. It was to go back of 
the State Department, or it was to go back of the White House, and 
it was kicked out of there : and then is was to go up by the station, 
and it was kicked out of there. Now, that is not a generous way in 
which to pay a tr'ibute to General Grant. 

Mr. Hamilton. Mr. Smith, in relation to the location of this me- 
morial near the new station, I understood Mr. Smith to say that that 
was the best place in the city for the location of the memorial, and 
that it could be as well located there as anywhere, and that Congress 
controlled the whole situation. What have you to say about that? 

Mr. Smitil of Towa. Well, the plaza belongs to the District of 
Columbia. Of course, I suppose that, with the absolute control we 
have over the District of Columbia, we have the power to rifle the 
District of any property it has, but I am not going to pass on any 
legal right of the District. Here is this memorial, driven about this 
city l)y these things. AYhy did you appoint a Commission, and give it 
authority to locate it in anv spot except the Capitol gi'ounds and the 
Library — and nobody will say that this is a part of the Capitol 
Grounds. You ai)pointed a distinguished Commission; they have 
been buffeted about from place to place, trying to get a place to put 
this memorial, and we who are pretending that we are going to do 
an act as evidence of our appreciation, are quarreling and caviling 
where it is to be located, a' d now, after the Coumiission has airreed 
on a location for this memorial and the decision of that Commission 
is unanimous, Ave want to revise their action. Of course, if something 
awful has been done it would be proper to revise their action. But 
they have spent years hunting a location in the cit}' of Washington 
big enough to hold this tremendous memorial, with its great length 
and its great breadth. 

The Chairman. Do you know what the height of the monument 
is to be? 

Mr. Smith, of Towa. vSomething like 30 feet. 

Colonel Bromwell. Tt is over 40 feet. 

The Chairman. That is, from the level of the ground? 

Colonel Bromwell. Yes. 

Mr. Safitii, of ToAva. T Avant to say tluit if there is anyone Avho 
thinks the Capitol is to belittle this, if he Avill go doAvn there and look 
from the west he will see that the 40-foot memorial will not be over- 
shadoAved by the Capitol. 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 46 

Mr. Hamilton. Which wa}' will it face? 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Toward the Monument; from the Capitol. 
I do not claim to be an artist, but all the gi'eat architects, all the 
great students of art, who have investigated this question unite in 
saying that it belongs down there and nowhere else in this city. Now, 
I have all the respect for old trees possible. I can not quite agree 
with our friend, Doctor Smith, as to the historical character of these 
trees. The}^ are of but slight historical significance. Of course, they 
are of great significance to our dear friend, the Doctor, who has 
planted them and reared them, cared for them, but a tree that was 
planted in memory of the abortive etforts, however laudable, of Mr. 
Crittenden ought not, in mv judgment, to stand in the way of placing 
the memorial to U. S. Grant where every man charged with any 
responsibility in this matter — ^the architects, the artists, the commis- 
sion, everyone — agi-ees that it ought to go. I do not believe these 
trees will be injured. But the Doctor told us that they tore up a tree 
planted by George Washington simply to put in the marble terrace 
about this Capitol, and it does seem to me that if a tree planted by 
George Washington was not sacred enough to stand in the way of 
the marble terrace about the Capitol, then a tree planted even by 
such a distinguished statesman as Mr. Crittenden, who was engaged 
in the laudable efforts for peace, and the tree planted by Mr. Beck, 
of Kentucky, and one in the honor of Boss Shepherd, ought not to 
stand in the Avay of a memorial to U. S. Grant. I am almost tempted 
to-day to quote Mr. Beck, to show- how he would have felt — and I will 
quote him — about putting this tree that he had planted in the way 
of a memorial to U. S. Grant. When James A. Garfield became 
President of the United States and sent the nominations for his 
Cabinet to the Senate, it was proposed by an adverse majority in the 
Senate to defer confirmation of his Cabinet. Mr. Beck, with his hardy 
Scotch wisdom, arose and said that '^ If our i^art}'^ wants to remain 
out of power for twenty years, let it refuse for an hour to confirm 
the nomination of the son of Abraham Lincoln to a place in the 
Cabinet." I say that a man who felt that way and gave that wise 
advice to his party associates would deeply regret to know that the 
planting by him of a tree in the Botanic Garden was to be utilized 
to obstruct the proper placing of the memorial to U. S. Grant. 

Now, it seems to me this is trivial. I realize that dear Doctor 
Smith can not look at it as I do, and that I can not look at it as he 
does. He has special relations with these trees and Avith this garden 
that make him have deep feeling, and I do not wonder at it. But to 
say that we are going to get this monument again out of its place, 
where it has finally been located after years and years and years of 
effort, when the whole plan has been changed to fit this location, a 
second set of contracts have been let, and, finally, the}' are at work at 
last after efforts of twelve years upon the part of the Society of the 
Army of the Tennessee to erect this memorial in the lifetime of some 
of the leaders of the Army of the Tennessee — to say that we are again 
to tear this memorial loose from its location and send these people out 
wandering, seeking a new location — is wrong. I think these trees too 
unimportant to be moving this memorial about on their account, at 
all. But I am as confident as I can be that w^e have brought before 
you the most capable tree mover in America and he sa}'s that there is 
a 100 per cent of chance that he can move these trees with safety. 



46 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

He and his father before him have spent their lives in this business. 
It is stated by the Agricultural Department that this firm and one 
other are the gi^eatest producers of improved machinery for the mov- 
ing of hea^'^" trees in America. ^Ve have got, then, what I regard as 
a trivial objection, as compared with the question of whether we are 
going to do this indignity to the memory of Grant and this indignity 
to ourselves, by saying that we are going to move this memorial once 
more after all these years of effort to get it located. But even that 
trivial objection. I believe, is entirely eliminated by the testimony of 
Mr. Hicks. He is an experienced man on this subject, and then we 
have the testimony of the man Avho has been in charge of the trees 
of the Capitol grounds all these years and knows the wonderful suc- 
cess of Mr. Olmsted in moving them in 1884. I do not know that I 
can say much more. There is no use of talking about its being lower 
than the tides. It is admitted that it will be more than 8 feet above 
high tide. 

This ground has under it a clay subsoil, (ieneral Dodge, who has 
served on the commissions that built the Logan memorial, the Sher- 
man memorial, and is going to build this memorial, if this com- 
mittee does not try to make this run on years and years until he 
can not see it located, says that he has not put up one of these memo 
rials that he has not had to put piles, and here, 8 feet below the 
surface, they have found a clay subsoil sufficient to hold this memo- 
rial. So, I ap])eal to this connnittee that if we are going to do 
anything as a tribute to Grant, we have got to do it generously; we 
have got to do it broadly, willing to sacrifice something to express 
our admiration and our love for Grant, and this business of quarrel- 
ing, whether it injures the prospect of the White House, or whether 
it is going to take property from the District of Columbia, or whether 
it is going to take df)wn sf)me tree having some liistorical associa- 
tion and moving it. is going to destroy whatever of credit there is 
in the erecting of the memorial at all. 

STATEMENT OF COL. CHARLES S. BROMWEIL. 

Colonel Bi{(»:mwkll. We wrote to the District Commissioners and 
asked if they liad any objection to the memorial being placed in front 
of the Union Station as a part of the station site, and they wrote 
back that they did not think it would be the ])roper place for it. The 
principal reason Avas that it would not fit in Avith the plans that they 
had already adojited and which were partially completed at that time. 
As I understand it. they laid out those converging avenues Avhich 
open into the plaza so that they converge into three principal points, 
and these ]ioints Avere to be marked according to their plans, by some 
cons])iciious objects, such as fountains, or something like that. Noav, 
the (iimensions of this monument Avere such that it did not fit in Avith 
thes(^ |n"incipal focal points, and if it Avere placed there, it Avould have 
lost all the benefit of laying out the converging avenues in that par- 
ticular Avay. Another reason was, it Avould be hard to handle the 
traffic right there. This platform is 3 or 4 feet aboA'e the surface, 
occupying a very considerable portion of the station right in the 
vicinity of the station, Avhich Avould interfere Avith the handling of 
the traffic. And another thing, there Avas some objection to placing 
it there, because it Avould seem somewhat of an appendage of the 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 47 

railroad station. 80. for all those reasons, they snsfgested that it be 
not placed there. 

Mr. IlA^riLTON. In other ^\ords, the surroundinirs would be inhar- 
monious ? 

Colonel Bro:\iwell. Yes, sir. 

General Dodge. There was just barely room to place it there. 

Colonel Bromwell. Just enough room. 

The Chairman. I heard this suagestion made, which T think was 
put forAvard by Mr. Woods, the Supervisinfi- Architect of the Capitol, 
to take all the land that lies between what the District has and the 
Capitol, so as to make an open sweep from the Capitol directly to 
the station, and that there would be a fine location for a monument 
in that open plaza. Everj'body comino- to Washino-ton would see 
beyond this areat plaza the Capitol, and on the way to it tliey would 
see the monument. Do you not think that that would be a very fine, 
location for a monument ( I do not mean necessarily for this one. 

Colonel Bro^iweli.. I think, in o-eneral, yes. I think that is a plan 
that would meet with the hearty approval of everyone. AVhetlier or 
not this particular one would be worked in there to advantage, I do 
not know. 

The CiiAiR3tAN. You mean this particular plan? 

Colonel Bromw^ell. Yes. 

Mr. Smith. Those blocks cost $750,000 apiece. It would be a mil- 
lion and a half. 

The Chairman. I was not thinking of it simply with reference to 
this memorial. 

Mr. Conner. AYe have the project in the Public Buildings Com- 
mittee now. I think we will work the problem out sometime, but it 
will take some time. 

The Chairman. That proposition is up? 

Mr. Conner. Yes; it has been up and canvassed and discussed. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. Secretary Root desires to be heard. Mr. Chair- 
man, before the hearings are over. 

The Chairman. We will kee]) them open. 

Mr. Tiio;mas. Have we had any definite figures as to what the cost 
would be for moving these trees ? 

The Chairman. I asked Mr. Hicks this morning to give them 
within limits. I said, " Would it cost as much as $5,000," and he said, 
" No." That is, to move the Crittenden tree, which would be the 
difficult one. 

Mr. THo:\rAS. That is a pretty high figure. Can ]Mr. Hicks give 
us some minimum figure? 

Mr. Hicks. I regret to say that I haven't those figures. I was 
expecting to meet a man and get the cost on the timbers and the ship- 
ment here, but I haven't those figures. 

The Chairman. Will you prepare an estimate, as near as you can, 
for the committee, and send it to the clerk of the Library Committee 
of the House? I think. Judge Smith, it might be well, then, to keep 
the matter open, and if we can find out when it will be convenient 
for Secretary Root to come, we will try to accommodate, him. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I have no right, Mr. Chairman, to prompt, 
but I would be veiy glad if the clerk would notify me of any hearings 
they have on this subject. 

38185—08 4 



48 GRANT MEMORIAL,. 

The Chairman. You undoubtedly have that right. Where did 
you say the model could be seen, Colonel Bromwell ? 

Colonel Bromavkll. Fifteenth and C streets SW., the Propagating 
Gardens. 

The Chairman, Will we have to give you notice in order to get 
there ? 

Colonel Bromwell. It is open any time up to half past 4, be- 
tween 9 and half past 4. 

The Chairman. The committee, then, will take an early oppor- 
tunity to look at the model. 

Colonel Bromwell. I should be very glad to meet the committee or 
any members of the committee and show them the model. 

The Chairman. We will notify you, then, and tiy to meet you. 

(Thereupon, at 3.30 o'clock p. m.. the committee adjourned, to meet 
at the call of the chairman.) 



Committee on The Library. 

House of Representatia^s, 
Wednesday, January 15^ 1908. 
The committee met at 2.30 o'clock p. m., Hon. Samuel W. McCall 
(chairman) in the chair. 

STATEMENT OF HON. ELIHU ROOT, SECRETARY OF STATE. 

The Chairman. Gentlemen, the hearing was called at this hour be- 
cause it was convenient for Secretary Root to be here, and we will be 
very glad to hear him. You may not know the course the hearing 
has taken, Mr. Secretary. It is perhaps a little wider than the bill 
upon which we are holding the hearing calls for. Any observation 
that occurs to you with reference to the Grant memorial the commit- 
tee will be glad to hear. 

Secretary Root. I am very much obliged to the committee for con- 
sidering my convenience. I am glad to have an opportunity to say 
something about the location of the niomorial, because I have noticed 
some misstatements — statements indicating a misunderstanding about 
it — in some of the newsi)apers. The commission creaied by Congress 
to secure a design and select a site and to erect a memorial was com- 
posed of the Secretary of War, the chairman of the Senate Committee 
on the Library, I think 

The Chairman. Senator Wetmore. 

Secretary Root (continuing). Senator Wetuiore and General 
Dodge, I think, as president of the Society of the Arni}'^ of the Ten- 
nessee. At that time I happened to be Secretary of AVar, and so was 
a member of the commissioiL AVe met and organized and proceeded 
to the discharge of the duty that was imposed upon us by Congress. 
We took up the subject, I think, with especial interest, because Gen- 
eral Dodge and I had been associated with General Porter in the 
building of the Grant memorial in New York. We were the two vice- 
presidents of that association, and had taken an active part in the en- 
tire enterprise, and liad been very deeply interested in it as perscmal 
friends of (ieneral Grant and of his family. When General Porter 
went to Paris as ambassador, the monument and its management, 



GRANT MEMOBIAIj. 49 

with the direction of the association, were left to General Dodge and 
myself as vice-presidents, so that we were already in the business and 
we took up the work of the statutory commission con amore. 

The Chairman. As qualified experts, also. 

Secretary Root. So far as a great deal of attention to the subject 
would qualify us. Our work was not at all perfunctory; it went 
rather beyor.d the ordinary interest of the performance of a statutory 
duty. We had a competition for design, got some gentlemen to help 
us to select a design, and canvassed the subject of site very fully. We 
first thought of the site immediatelv south of the State. AVar, and 
Navy building, and we thought of a site on the White Lot south of 
the White House, but we were not fully satisfied with either of those, 
and went all over Washington and looked at every place we cotdd 
think of, and we discussed every place that we looked at, until finally 
we came to the conclusion that the monument, or the memorial, as I 
think the statute calls it, ought to have a definite relation to the pub- 
lic buildings of Washington, and we settled upon a site directly in 
front of the Capitol as being the best possible site. We considered 
that we were authorized by the statute to select that site because, al- 
thought it was within the fence which surrounds the Botanic Gar- 
den — the grounds of the Botanic Garden — it was unoccupied. So we 
selected that by a formal resolution. We also selected the design and 
made the contract with the architect and the sculptor for a memorial 
which, in our judgment, was adapted to that site. That was the posi- 
tion in which the matter was left when I retired from the War De- 
partment, and nw knowledge of the matter ceased. However, I still 
kept a warm interest in it. 

In selecting that site, we had a good many things in view. We 
considered that the statute, which made an appropriation of $-250,000 
for a memorial to General Grant, meant sonif^thing more than the 
ordinary statue which, as Secretary of War, I have been engaged 
in putting up around the city as a member of similar commissions. 
We felt that it was the intention of Congress, plainh^ exhibited by 
the difference between that statute and the ordinary monument appro- 
priations, to indicate a distinction, aud that it was our duty to secure 
a design and to select a site which would be distinguished, and which 
would put the memorial to General Grant on a different footing 
from the memorials to many generals and public men of inferior 
place in history. We considered also the fact that indications were 
many that the region about the Capitol was about to receive atten- 
tion and to be rescued from the somewhat unkempt and uncultivated 
condition in which it had remained for so many years. 

The Chairman. You are not thinking of the statue of Washington 
east of the Capitol, the seminude statne? 

Secretary Root. No. The new Library had already been built, 
and the plans for the new buildings for both houses of Congress had 
been talked of, and it had gone to such a point that those buildings 
were evidently to be put up, this building that we are in now, and the 
Senate building. The plan for the removal of the Pennsylvania 
Railroad from the Mall and the putting up of this great station 
immediately north of the Capitol had been far advanced, and it was 
quite evident that the movement of the improving tendency was 
toward this particular site, and that the neighborhood of the Capitol 
was, within a very short time, to be made worthy of the Capitol 



50 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

itself. So we considered that a «Teat memorial to General (irant 
would be a fitting part of the bringin-g np of the surroundings of the 
Capitol to a point worthy of the Capitol building. We considered 
that that immediate prospect made it all the more appropriate that 
we should select that site. 

We considered the plan, which had already been made public, of the 
Bo-called park commission, with regard to the beautification of Wash- 
ington, and we considered what effect upon our judgment the doubts 
as to whether that plan would be followed or not ought to have. We 
came to the conclusion that, while the site of the memorial which 
we determined upon fitted perfectly into the plan if carried out, that, 
whether it Avas carried out or not, this was incomparably the best site 
there AA'as in Washington for the memorial. 

The Chairman, It did not dei)end upon the carrying out of the 
Burnham plan ^ 

Secretary Root. Not at all. I think the carrying out of the Burn- 
ham plan would probably improve the site, but we were clear that, 
whether it Avas carried out or not. it Avas altogether the best site that 
could be found, and so Ave performed the duty that Avas imposed upon 
us by Congress and finished our Avork in that respect. 

We made a contract, as I think I have said, Avith the architect and 
the sculptor, under Avhich they have gone on with their Avork -until, 
I understand, they are noAv ready to put the Avork on the ground. It 
has noAv been Hve years since the design Avas selected and'the site was 
selected. Not speaking noAv as a member of the commission, for 
I have ceased to be a member of the conunission, but speaking 
as a citizen interested in the memorial to General Grant and as a 
citizen Avho has been happy to count himself among the personal 
friends of General Grant, I Avish to express a A'ery sincere and earnest 
hope that the Avork of erecting this memorial to him shall not be 
interfered Avith ; that the Avork that has been done, Avhich has taken 
so many years, shall not be destroyed; and that the Avhole effort shall 
not have to be made over again, for a large part of the money that 
Avas appropriated by Congress Avill have to be expended under the 
contract that has been made. The design that Avas selected is adapted 
to a loAv, level site, and it is intended to be so that it will not come 
in competition Avith lofty buildings; it is not, itself, to be a lofty 
memorial. 

The Chairman. It is not assertive. 

Secretary Hoot. No; it is not assertive. It is intended to be put 
in juxtaposition to some of the public buildings of Washington, and 
not to compete Avith them. 

I think there ought to be a memorial to (irant, and I think it ought 
to be ])ut up by his old friends and followers and comrades Avho are 
still alive, and I hope that the work Avill be alloAved to go on in accord- 
ance Avith the decision reached under the authority of Congress and 
in the perfornunice of the duty that Avas imposed upon the officers 
named by Congress. I do not think of anything else, ]Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Does anyone desii-e to ask the Secretary any ques- 
tions ? 

Mr. Conner. AVere you a member of the commission when the con- 
tract Avas let? 

Secretary Rooi\ I was. 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 51 

Mr. Conner. AVhat pecuniary loss would result to the (ioverunient 
if a change should be made '. 

Secretary Koot. 1 can not tell, because I have not been a member 
of the commission now for years, but there must have been a very 
large part of the compensation going, under the contract, to the 
sculptor and the architect, whicli must have been earned already, if 
the work is ready to be put upon the ground. 

Mr. Conner. From the investigation that you made in selecting 
the site, do you think of any other site in the city that would be 
nearly as suitable as this one? 

Secretary Koot. I do not. The one that would come the nearest 
to it, in my judgment, would be the one on the Wliite Lot, but there 
have been some serious objection^ to that. 

The Chairman. Were any steps taken to begin the construction of 
the memorial on the White Lot ( 

Secretary Root, ^o, sir. The fact is, the design that was selected 
would take up so great a space as to be very incongruous with the 
present uses of the White Lot, materialh- infringe upon that, and as 
to practically make it impossible to put it anywhere else that I know 
of in Washing-ton than where it has bee;i located. The platform is 
two or three hundred feet long; between the groups, I mean. 

General Dodge. In asking for the designs, you remember we sub- 
mitted two places that they should fit, and this memorial was fitted 
to the White Lot". 

The Chairman. How long did you say it was? 

General Dodge. Two hundred and fifty-four feet on its longest 
axis. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. If the Secretary recalls it, I would like to 
have this fact in the record : In answer to Judge Connor, you spoke 
of no expense having been put upon it until it was located in the new 
site. Do you recall. Mr. Secretary, when you came to adapt it to the 
present site, that the length of it was changed, and a mnnber of 
changes of that type made? 

Secretary Root. That adaptation was made after I had left the 
commission. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. So that, if any ex])ense was lost, incident to 
those changes, you would not know about that? 

Secretary Root. No. 

Mr. IIa:mii.ton. Mr. Secretary, the desigii was originalh' made M-ith 
reference to two locations. I think you stated? 

Mr. S:\rTTTr. of Iowa. Just one, the White I>iot. 

Secretary Root. We gave two alternative locations. I think. We 
carefully guarded ourselves against being committed to either of 
them. One was south of the State. War. and Navy building; that 
would be opposite the Corcoran Art Gallery, a location corresponding 
on that side to the Sherman statue on the other side, the Sherman 
statue in front of the Treasury on the other side: and the other was 
a point on the '\"\Tiite Lot directlv on the axis of the AMiite House. 

Mr. HAArn.TON. Then some modification was made when you came 
to select tliis location in the I^otanic Garden? 

Secretary Root. The modification was made after I left the com- 
mission. 



52 GRANT MEMORIAL,. 

Mr. Hamilton. But made with reference to this last selected 
location ? 

Secretary Root. Made with reference to the last selection. There 
was no modification made, so far as I can remember, with regard to 
the White Lot plan. 

General Dodge. Yes; we had to lower the statue for this location, 
making two approaches, two steps, on each side. Those were the 
only changes made. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. And you shortened it? 

General Dodge. Shortened it 10 feet. 

Secretary Root. For this location? 

General Dodge. That was for this location here. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I think, if you will pardon me. Mr. Hamil- 
ton, that you misunderstand this situation. The plan was not to 
submit designs that would be eligible to either site, so that they could 
use the same design on each of the two sites, the one back of the State 
Department and the one on the White Lot, but to submit designs that 
would fit those two locations. That is. this one would never have 
fitted that back of the State Department. 

Mr. Hamilton. I understood that that was precisely what was 
done, that the design was intended to fit either one of thosQ locations. 

Secretary Root. You could get a copy of the invitation. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. These tracts were of entirely different shapes, 
and it was not possible to draw one design that could be used on either 
of these tracts, but the invitation was to artists to draw designs, and 
they could draw them at their election for the one site or the other. 
And this one finally adopted was one drawn for the White Lot and 
could never have been put on the State, War, and Navy lot. 

Mr. Hamilton. That is a statement of an entirely different condi- 
tion from Avhat I supj^osed existed. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. This memorial could never have been put on 
the White House lot. 

Mr. Hamilton. I am very glad to know that. 

General Dodge. This design would not have fitted south of the 
War Department. There were a great many designs, some for the 
site south of the War Department and some for the other sites- 
Mr. HA:\iir/r()N. This design was intended to fit the A^liite House 
lot? 

General Dodcje. Yes. 

Mr. Ha:milton. And was subso(iuently changed to fit this location? 

The CwAiH.MAN. General Dodge, could you, without any trouble, 
furnish the connnittee with a copy of the invitation to the artists and 
the architects? 

Genei'al Dodge. I think I can. 

The CiiAiR.ArAN. If it would be no troul)le I think it would be well 
for us to have it. 

General Dodgk. I think Colonel Broinwell has one. 

Secretary Roor. TJicy have ihcni in the ^y-,\v Department, undoubt- 
edly. 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Secretary just 
one question. This location in the Botanic Garden is fixed by the 
statute. Is there no other spot in the Botanic Garden at which, in 
your opinion, the memorial could be located, except this particular 
spot Avhich the Commission selected? Unless we change the existing 



GRAKT MEMORIAL. 53 

law. the memorial is already located in the Botanic Garden. The 
question I am asking is this : In your opinion, is there no other loca- 
tion in the Botanic Garden which could be selected for this memorial 
other than that which has been selected by the Commission ? 

Mr. Conner. East of Second street. 

Mr. Tho:mas. Well, east of Second street. To make my question 
clear, the pending bills before the committee provide that the memo- 
rial shall be located on any unoccupied ground, provided that such 
location does not interfere Avith historic or other trees. That is 
practically the whole issue before us, unless some other bill should 
be introduced. Xoav, the question I am asking is, is there any other 
location in the Botanic Garden, which is now fixed by existing law 
as the place where the memorial is to be located, on which it could 
be located ? 

Secretary Root. I suppose it might be moved east or west. It 
could not be moved east very well, but it might be moved to the west. 
But it seemed to us that the eastern end of the garden was much the 
best place for it. so that we did not consider very much about putting 
it anywhere else in the garden. Our idea was to have it a part of the 
general scene which took in the Capitol — this broad memorial with 
the Capitol rising behind, so that it would be a part of the Capitol 
group, enter into composition with the Capitol behind it. 

Mr. Thomas. I do not suppose. Mr. Secretary, you are familial* 
with all the details of the grounds in the Botanic Garden, but, in 
your opinion, in your judgment, is this location probably not only 
the best, but the only location, which could be selected in harmony 
with the surroundings? We want to save these trees, if we can; if 
we can not. then that is another question. 

Secretary Root. I could not say as to that. 

Mr. Thomas. In other words, you do not wish to express any 
opinion about that? 

Secretary Rt)0T. No; I have not examined the grounas for the pur- 
pose of finding any other place in the Botanic Garden. I had never 
heard, at the time we located it there, of any of the trees there being 
historical, and never sinc« then, until a few weeks ago. that I 
remember. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. I have one letter here. Mr. Chairman, which 
I would like to introduce. Some question was raised the other day 
by Doctor Smith in reference to the sewers in that vicinity, and I 
will read this letter and give it to the reporter to put in the record. 

Mr. Smith read the letter, as follows: 

Office of the Engineer Commissioner 

of the dlstkkt of columbia. 
Washliigtoii, January I'f, 1908. 
Dear Sir : The sewers serving the locality wherein is situated the Botanic 
Garden drain into the B street and New Jersey avenue trunk sewer. This 
sewer is protected by tide jzates at its outer end, so that tlood water from the 
river will not back up therein. 

Very respectfully, D. E. McComb, 

Superintendent of Seivers. 
Col. Charles S. Bromwell, U. S. Army, 

In charge of Public Buildings and Grounds. 
Mr. Hamilton. I do not understand that it was apprehended that 
sewage could get above the surface in any way. 

The Chairman. Doctor Smith said that it did, sometimes, back up. 



54 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

Mr. Hamilton. That was in years past. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. He claimed that it came up to the sewer at 
a time of higli tide in the river. 

Mr. Hamilton. In that case, anyway, it would be in the sewers. 

Mr. S:mith. of Iowa. He said that it gave off noxious odors. I 
may say to you that the platform of this memorial is 8 or 9 feet above 
the level of the ground, so that if the water did come up it would not 
rise above that platform. 

Mr. Hamilton. What was the surface of the sewer up there? 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. It did not appear. 

Mr. Hamilton. There must be a considerable depth. 

The Chairman. Judge Smith, have you made any attempt to locate 
the sewer that is said to run along the path under the monument? 
Is there a sewifr that will run under the monument? 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa. The fact of the matter is, I suppose, that if 
that was true, the building of the memorial would be a benefit to the 
sewer, and not that the sewer would be an injury to the memorial. 

The Chairman. As some testimony was given on that point, I 
desired to know the location of that sewer. 

Mr. SaiiTH, of Iowa. I am not prepared to say that the sewer does 
not run under the walk, nor that it does, except that Doctor Smith 
states it, and I have no doubt that what he says is the fact. I am 
sorry that I did not look the matter up. which I would have done had 
I known the committee would want it, but inasmuch as this memorial 
will go down to clay probably 6 or 8 feet below the present surface., 
a solid, concrete mass, it will certainly benefit the sewer. 

The following letters were ordered to be placed in the record : 

Washington. D. C. Januitry 1'/. 190S. 
Gen. (J. M. Dodck. 

Mo. 1 Broadivdif, New York. 
Dear Sik : We offer to move the Crittenden oak to some yart of the Botanic 
Garden for .fil.SG.G. This witli the nnderstandinj; that we are to have authority 
as to methods and time of moving, pruning, drainage, and care for two years. 
Also that we are to have free a(!eess to the tree and its site for a radius of 
40 feet. 

We will move the Beck elm 15 inches diameter at 3 feet from the ground and 
the Shei)herd elm 9 inches diameter for $."20. This with the understanding that 
the work is to he done under the .same eouditions as mentioned ahove for the 
Crittenden oak. 

Yours, truly, J. Huks & Son. 

Westbury Stntion. .V. Y., 
Per IIenky IIicks. 



Washington, D. C.. Jauunrii / }, 1908. 

SECHKIAUV Ol'" THK LllMiAKV COMMJTTEK. 

Deau Sik : In accoi-dance witli the instructions of the Hon. S. W. McCall, 
I Inclose estimate for tree moving on the site of the Grant memorial. 
Yours, truly. 

Henry Hicks. 

(Thereupon, at ."^.10 o'clock ]>. ni.. the conimittcc adjourned to 
meet at the call of the Chair.) 

Ni;\v YoKK. .hiiiiiiirii 17. j:iO.-\. 
Hon. Samiki, \V. .McCai.i.. 

('iKiiinuiii Coinitiittcc on the Lihidnj. House of li(i>n:seiit<itiri>i. 
Dear Sir: In reply to your letter of the ir»th instant, relative to the location 
of tlie (inint memorial, would say that the location proposed on the site of the 
existing Botanic (Jarden is a position of great distinction, provided the i)lan of 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 55 

opening this site up and developing tlie esplanade between the Capitol and Wash- 
ington Monument is fully carried out. 

I expressed this view to the Grant Memorial Commission some time ago, 
and reiterated it recently by concurring in the report of the advisory com- 
mittee, of which I was a member, although I feel that in consequence of the 
modifications in design consequent upon change of site the memorial per se is 
not as successful as formerly. 

The memorial was first designed to face on a place of parade or review, and 
its composition was. to my mind, more interesting and unified than at present. 

As a possible site for the memorial as at first designed, and one in which 
the scale of its sculptures would be in more perfect harmony with the sur- 
roundings, I have always favored the location along the southerly border of 
Lafayette square facing Pennsylvania avenue, and as well, all the great parades 
and reviews that occur periodically in Washington. The statue of Jackson 
could be placed facing on the opposite side of the square. These two monuments, 
together with the Revolutionary monuments already provided at the four 
corners would form a telling group and fittingly embellish this square, typical 
of the progress of the country's history from the beginning. 

It is evident to my mind that these two sites, both located on one of the 
two main axes of the city's plan,' are the only sites available or fitting for 
this memorial, and I sincerely trust that one site or the other will be decided 
upon at an early date, for from lack of opportunity to place materials in posi- 
tion our payments are necessarily withheld and the lack of means to carry on 
the preparatory work is delaying the whole undertaking. The amount of stone- 
work prepared for the original design is about one-tenth of the whole, none of 
which has as yet been i-ecut for the modified design on the Botanic Garden site, 
as all work was ordered stopped by the commission some time ago. 

The false start has already occasioned us some loss, which we trust maj 
be restored by the Government. 

Hoping you will not hesitate to call upon me for further information, if dr 
sired, I am, 

Yours, very truly, Edward P. Casev. 



i 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 



Committee on Library, 

House of Representatives, 

January 28, 1908. 

The committee met at 3 o'clock p. m., Hon. Saiimel W. McCall 
(chairman) presiding. 

STATEMENT OF EDWARD P. CASEY, ARCHITECT OF THE GRANT 

MEMORIAL. 

The Chairman. Mr. Casej^, we would like to have you tell us what 
you know about this matter of location, and the place for which you 
designed the memorial originally, and the changes 3'Ou had to make — 
about the adaptability of the work to the location in the Botanic 
Garden. 

Mr. Casey. 1 can say that the monument was originally designed 
for the northern side of the Ellipse, south of the White House, on the 
edge of the Ellipse. 

The Chairman. Was that referred to in the invitations? 

Mr. Casey. It was referred to in the programme on the invitations. 
It was thought afterwards that it was not a strictl}' architectural loca- 
tion. That is, cutting into the side of the Ellipse that way was not 
considered a very happy position for a monument of that character or 
of any other character. The Ellipse should be kept intact. Then 
this location at the foot of Capitol Hill was proposed, and one or two 
others. 

The Chairman. W^hat others^ 

Mr. Casey. The one that 1 think of is the one in the plaza in front 
of the new station, and that was considered by the commission quite 
serioasly for some time. Finally the architect of the station, Mr. 
Burnham. objected to its being placed there, as far as I can under- 
stand; 1 think it was Mr. Burnham, because he had had a plan devel- 
oped for that plaza involving three fountains on the axes of the 
different avenues, so that this monument would not fit in very well 
with them. It was also thought that the monument, being a terrace 
about 250 feet long, would obstruct the approach to the station, and 
people could not climb over it to g'et to the station. For several 
reasons of that kind that site was given up. Then this site was pro- 
posed at the foot of Capitol Hill. Now, that site is a very fine site, 
providing this park is opened up according to the proposition of mak- 
ing a square at the foot of the hill. 

The Chairman. That is, to keep an open square there? 

Mr. Casey. Yes, sir. 

57 



58 GRANT MEMORIAL. 

The Chairman, That would involve the removal of the Botanic 
Garden i 

Mr. Casey. Yes; it would. 

The Chairman. Suppose the Botanic Garden were not removed, 
what sort of a site would that be^ 

Mr. Casey. I do not think it would l)e a very good site in its 
present state. 

The Chairman. Did you have to make any particular changes in 
the architecture of the memorial as made for the location south of the 
White House? 

Mr. Casey. Yes; the commission requested me to make the designs 
symmetrical on l)oth sides, front and rear. The design formerly was 
a terrace facing only one way, with a balustrade in the back; and the 
square being S3'mmetrical, it was thought that the monument would 
have to be symmetrical, so that the rear was made the same as the 
front; that is, with steps approaching it. Also the height was 
diminished to about -i feet. The terrace was made about 4 feet high. 
That was to enable a clear view over the top of it down the Mall — 
the park. 

The Chairman. What is the extreme height of the central part of 
the work above the ground level? 

Mr. Casey. The pedestal, you mean, or the main figure of Grant? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Casey. I think Grant's head would be about 80 feet from the 
ground. 

The Chairman. What is the height of the extreme ends of the work 
above the ground ( 

Mr. Casey. The groups on the extreme ends would be al)out 14 or 
15 feet to the top, and between comes this platform, which is about 4 
feet high. I have thought of the subject a good deal, naturally, l)eing 
an architect, and I can not see any other alternative site hei-e, except 
that one on Lafayette Square, at the southern border. That is the 
only other site that I can see that would be suitable for a monument 
of this size and importance. 

Mr. 'Thomas. That is right opposite the White Housed 

Mr. Casey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. Looking to the White Housed 

Mr. Casey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. That will obscure Jackson's monuments 

Mr. Casey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Conner. Was the question of locating it there brought up at 
any time? 

Mr. Casey. 1 do not think it has l)etMi brought up l)efoi-e the commis- 
sion. I think T have nuMitioned it casually. l)ut I do not think they 
have ever thought of it. 

Mr. Conner. We understood the members of the conunission when 
here to say that they had made a thorough effort to find a place in the 
city to locate it. 

Mr. Casey. This situation or site was the only one they talked over 
very much, and that fmally came to naught on account of the other 
disj)osition of the ground that had already been mapped out. 

The C'liAiKMAN. You in your letter spoke about its being appro- 
priate; for a parade ground i 



GRANT MEMORIAL. 59 

Mr. Casey. Yes; the monument was originally designed as a point 
from which reviews and parades could be witnessed on that large 
Ellipse. It was designed as a terrace, and that was the reason I 
suggested the southerly border of Lafayette Square as a suitable 
site, because of that feature, that being a place where all reviews or 
parades that ever occur in Washington of any size — that is the place 
where the}'^ pass. 

The Chairman. Would comparatively level ground be better adapted 
to your conception in the architecture than uneven ground? 

Mr. Casey. Yes, it would. It is supposed to go on a level tract. 
It is not supposed to go on top of a hill. 

Mr. Conker. The ground in either place is level, in Lafayette 
Square or the ground here. 

Mr. Casey. Yes, sir. There never has been an}- other site pro- 
posed except a level site. It seems that a monument of importance 
should be placed on one of the two main axes of this cit3\ There are 
only tMo main lines upon which this cit}' is laid out. One of them is 
east and west through the Capitol, and the other north and south 
through the White House. That was the original plan of the city, and 
all the avenues, the direction of all the avenues, have been developed 
about those two lines as axes. Now, it seems that monument ought to 
go on one of these two axes, at some point upon it, and the only points 
on these axes that I can think of are those which 1 have just spoken of. 

Mr. Conner. Do 3"ou think of a better location for the monument 
than the one selected, provided it does not encroach upon the Botanic 
Garden^ 

Mr. Casey. I think it is a very good site, and it was always under- 
stood that it was to be developed according to the original plans, as it 
was originally intended to be, and that it was to be open more or less. 

The Chairman. That is, to have that particular locality open, a^ou 
mean ? 

Mr. Casey. Yes. You see the original site of the Washington 
Monument was at the intersection of these two axes, the north and 
south axes, and the east and west axes were the sites for the Wash- 
ington Monument. When they came to build the Washington Monu- 
ment thej^ forgot all about that. They overlooked it, and put the 
monument oil' about 150 feet from either of the axes, so it was placed 
just a little wrong, because there was a hill, and they wanted to get 
it on top of a hill. That was the idea. 

Mr. Smith, of Iowa, To make that plain, did you and Mr. Shrady 
cooperate in presenting the general plan for this memorial? 

Mr. Casey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Smith. You were to do the architectural work and he to do the 
work as far as sculpture was concerned ? 

Mr. Casey. Yes; we worked it together. 

Mr. Smith. You have spoken of Lafayette Square. Do you recol- 
lect that it was at one time proposed to erect a statue of Lafayette 
immediately south of the Jackson Statue? 

Mr. Casey. I do. 

Mr. Smith. And that at that time a joint resolution of Congress was 
passed prohibiting the erection of any structures between the Jackson 
Monument and the White House? 

Mr. Casey. I have understood that was the case. 

Mr. Smith. And it is still the law? 



60 GRANT MEMORIAL,. 

Mr. Casey. I have been told so. 

Mr. Smith. You recall that the original foundation for the Lafayette 
Statue, south of the Jackson Statue, is still in the j^round there, and 
it had to be abandoned because of this joint resolution of Congress? 

Mr. Casey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Smith. You are aware that there has been a great deal of talk 
about two plans, the Burnham plan for the improving of Washington 
and the original plan of L'Enfant^ 

Mr. Casey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Smith. When you say this would be a very fine site, do you 
mean that the entire Burnham plan has got to be carried out in order 
to make it a good site, or would it be a good plan if either the L'En- 
fant plan was carried out or if generally the garden was opened by 
the taking down of the fences and the walls and throwing it into an 
open park? 

Mr. Casey. I think the site would be very good under those cir- 
cumstances. I think if it was developed only in the inmiediate vicinity 
it would be a good site. I think it would be a veiy much better site 
if the whole esplanade was opened up. 

Mr. Smith. You say that after the memorial was removed from the 
White House Circle to this position you made some changes and you 
have enumerated the putting of steps up on the east or back of the 
memorials 

Mr. Casey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Smith, Do vou recall that you also cut down the length about 
10 feet? 

Mr. Casey. Yes; I cut the length down 10 feet. 

Mr. Smith. When you gave the height of this memorial, did you 
mean the height from the curb of the street or the height from the 
base of the monument ^ 

Mr. Casey. The heights I gave were from the ground level, the 
ground that it stands on. 

Mr. Smith. You moan the final level of the ground? 

Mr. Casey. Yes; I do not know that they are exactly correct, but 
they are about that. 

The Chairman. What do you mean by the immediate vicinity? 

Mr. Casey. I shouki say that part lying between First and Second 
streets; as much as that any way. 

The Chairman. How far would that carry it? 

Mr. Smith. About halfway down the Botanic Garden. 

New York, Jaimarif 21, 1908. 

Dear Sir: Your favor of .January 2.5 has been duly received. I wish to say, in 
response to your request for my views on moving large trees, that the (juestion involves 
a number of (considerations — the species of tree, the loeatiou in whit-h it is found, 
the condition of its health and vigor, and the condition of the soil and exposure to 
which it is proposed to move it. 

During forty years' exi)erience T have seen a great many kinds and specimens of 
trees of a large size moved, and iiave exi)erimented myself extensively. As the result 
of my experience, I would not recommend the removal of any tree over inches in 
diameter, and in the ca.se of trees such as oaks, tulips, etc., I would not adviss to 
move them if they are more than 4 inches in diameter. 

One of the main reasf)ns for not moving large trees is that if they live they almost 
invariably fail to recover their original beauty and vigor, and, moreover, they gen- 
erally diminish in vigor and beauty year by year, till they are almost sure to be 
stunted, more or less, by removal, and there certainly is little beauty in a stunted 
tree. 



GEANT MEMORIAJL,. 61 

I have always taken an interest in moving large trees, because if it could be suc- 
cessfully done it would be a great advantage to landscape gardening, but, after 
extended consideration of examples of large-tree moving in the various parks of the 
United States, also England, France, and Germany, I have arrived at the conviction 
that it ought not to be done, and most of the experts whom I have consulted in 
Europe agreed with me. 

Respectfully, yours, Saml. Parsons, 

Landscape Architect, Department of Parks. 
Hon. Samuel W. McCall, 

Chairman of Committee on the Library, Washington, D. C. 



Office Engineer Commissioner, 

District of Columbia, 
Washington, January 23, 1908. 
Col. Charles S. Bromwell, U. S. Army, 

In charge of Public Buildings and Grounds. 

Colonel: At the request of the Hon. Mr. Smith, the following statement is made: 

The old sewer maps indicate a sewer under the central east-and-west walk in the 

Botanic Garden, extending from Tiber sewer to the United States Capitol building. 

This sewer is 3 feet in diameter, circular section, between Tiber sewer and the west 

side of First street. 

From the west side of First street eastward it is 1 foot and 6 inches in diameter, 
also of circular section. In 1899-1900 a trunk sewer 14 feet in diameter was con- 
structed, crossing the Capitol grounds 200 feet east of and parallel with First street. 
This sewer crossed the line of old sewer as indicated on the old maps, but no indi- 
cation of the old sewer is found in the inspectors' report of the work. 

It is my belief that the old sewer is not in service eastward from First street. If 
it should prove to be otherwise it would be a small job to connect it with the trunk 
sewer. 

The only function of the old sewer is to drain the surface water of First street 
between Garfield statue and the Peace Monument and whatever sewage may be 
discharged into it within the Botanic Garden. The surface water and the sewage from 
the buildings in the Botanic Garden may easily be diverted from this sewer and other- 
wise disposed of if it is considered desirable to abandon the old sewer. 
A'^ery respectfully, 

D. E. McCoMB, 
Superintendent of Sewers. 

(At 3.30 o'clock p. m. the committee adjourned.) 



60th Congress, ) HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. J Report 

1st Session. S 1 No. 1302. 



CONCERNING THE LOCATION OF THE GRANT MEMORIAL IN THI5 
BOTANIC GARDEN IN THE CITY OF WASHINGTON. 



Makch 24, 1908. — Ordered to be printed. 



Mr. Howard, from the Committee on the Library, submitted the 

following 

ADVERSE REPORT. 

[To accompany H. R. 10502 and H. J. Re8. 117.] 

The Committee on the Library, to whom was referred the bill (H. R. 
10502), introduced by Mr. Sherley, to amend the provision of the 
sundry civil appropriation act of June 30, 1906, making an appropria- 
tion for continuing the work of erecting the memorial to Gen. Ulysses 
S. Grant, report the same to the House with the recommendation that 
it lie on the table. The committee also report to the House, with the 
recommendation that it lie on the table, H. J. Res. 117, introduced by 
Mr. Mann, which provides that the Grant Memorial be located upon 
the large circular or elliptical plat between the White House grounds 
and the Washington Monument. 

The committee has considered these propositions together, because, 
while diflering in their terms, the effect of either, if adopted, would 
be to change the present location of the Grant Memorial as selected 
by the Grant Memorial Commission. The sundry civil act for 1907 
contained this provision: 

That the memorial may be located in the unoccupied portion of the Botanic Garden 
grounds between First and Second streets as recommended by the Grant Memorial 
Commission. 

Mr. Sherley's bill proposes to that provision this limitation: 

But in making such location no historic or other tree planted in such grounds shall 
be removed or otherwise disturbed. 

The site selected by the Commission has growing upon it several 
trees said to be of historic interest and others of botanical rather than 
historical interest; consequently, if the amendment were adopted the 
memorial could not occupy the selected location, and the precise ques- 
tion to be decided is shall the Grant memorial or the trees, historic and 
otherwise, occupy this particular spot. The preponderance of evi- 
dence before the committee was to the effect that the trees could be 
removed to some other situation without material risk of loss, and that 



2 GRANT MEMORIAL IN BOTANIC GARDEN, WASHINGTON, D. 0. 

the memorial, because of its design and size, could not be suitably 
\)laced in any other situation in Washington that is both available and 
desirable; and in this view of the matter the majority of the committee 
resolved and do recommend that the trees standing on the memorial 
site be removed, at a reasonable cost, and that the memorial be erected 
on the site selected. 

The resolution of Mr. Mann, if adopted, would fix the site of the 
memorial between the White House and Washington Monument. The 
reasons against this which controlled the majority of the committee 
are clearl}^ and cogentl}^ set forth by the members of the Grant Memo- 
rial Commission and others acting for and with it in the decision of this 
■question. The committee have, therefore, quoted the material parts 
of the statements of the Commission, artist, and other experts made 
before it during the inquiry these measures have necessitated, and 
commend them to the consideration of the House as giving a full his- 
tory of the movement to erect a memorial to Gen. Ulysses S. Grant in 
Washington, the reasons for the site selected, a history of the Botanic 
Garden and of the planting of the Crittenden tree, the Beck tree, and 
others embraced in the statement of Supt. William R. Smith. 

Those of the committee agreeing to. the action recommended find 
their views admirably and succinctly stated in these resolutions adopted 
by the New York Commandery of the Military Order of the Loj'^al 
Legion : 

Whereas there is an effort on the part of some of the press and citizens of Wash- 
ington to force the removal of the memorial to Gen. U. S; Grant from the Botanic 
Garden in that city; and 

Whereas General Grant was a citizen of this State, a member of this commandery, 
and its commander during the years 1884 and 1885: Therefore 

Resolved by the New York Commanderi/ of the Military Order of the Loyal Legion, That 
the location of the Grant memorial in the Botanic Garden in Washington meets our 
approval. 

Resolved, That the location of the Grant memorial isan ideal one, at the footof the Cap- 
itol and on the axis of the Capitol and Washington Monument, with ample grounds 
surrounding it. It has received the approval of the Superintendent of Public Buildings 
and Grounds, of various expert architects and sculptors, the sculptor and architect of 
the memorial, the army societies, the veterans of the civil war, the Washington Chap- 
ter of the American Institute of Architects, also of General Grant's family ; and the 
memorial has been changed to fit the present location, which was made in 1903 and 
confirmed in 1906. To ask its removal at this time is uncalled for and impracticable, 
and we earnestly protest against it. 

Resolved, That a copy of these resolutions be furnished by the recorder of this com- 
mandery to the Grant Memorial Commission and to the Senators and Representa- 
tives in Congress from this State. 

STATEMENT OP GEN. GRENVILLE M. DODGE, CHAIRMAN OF THE GRANT MEMORIAL COM- 
MISSION. 

General Dodge. Gentlemen, perhaps it would be better for me to state to you here 
the efforts that have been made to build a memorial to General Grant. 

In 1895 the Society of the Army of the Tennessee, of which General Grant was 
formerly the commander, appointed a committee of its officers, several of whom were 
Members of Congress, to come to Washington and to appeal to Congress to make a 
proper appropriation for a proper memorial to General Grant. That committee came 
here and labored up to 1901. In 1901 what was known as the Hepburn bill waa 
passed, which appropriated $250,000 for a memorial to General Grant; and the com- 
mission named to carry it out was Secretary Root, Mr. Wetmore, and myself. That 
law, as Judge Smith has said, we all considered as adequate. But when the question 
was raised as to the jurisdiction of Congress, in order to be in accord with Congress 
and do nothing that would not meet their approval, we simply asked that that 
amendment be passed. But we do not consider and did not consider that the location 
of the memorial down here was made under that amendment. It waa made under 
the original act. 



GRANT MEMORIAL IN BOTANIC GARDEN, WASHINGTON, D. C. 3 

Our first work under this act authorizing the memorial was to obtain the models. 
In asking for models we selected ourselves two places. One was the north point of 
what is known as the " White circle," the north end of it; and the other was the 
square south of the State Department. We did that because the sculptors, in pre- 
senting their models, wanted to make models that would fit the ground where they 
were to go. The model which was accepted, which I think is one of the finest that 
has ever been produced, had, before it was accepted, the judgment of St. Gaudens, 
Mr. Daniel G. French, INIr. Burnham, Mr. McKini, General Schofield, and Mr. Mere- 
dith; and they were unanimous in accepting it. That model was made to fit the 
north end of the White House lot. It is 25-i feet long and 69 or 70 feet wide, and of 
course requires a great deal of space about it. 

After the model was accepted there was a great deal of opposition to our going into 
the White House lot. The President and some of the members of the Cabinet and 
others thought that that lot should not be disturbed. They claimed that it broke 
the view from the White House to the Washington Monument. And in response to 
those protests we made up our minds that if we could find a place in Washington 
that was suitable for the purpose we would go to it. The commission for two years 
looked at every scpiare and every place in Washington, and we finally located in the 
Botanic Garden here in 1903, and made up our minds that that was the only ground 
that had the space and that was proper for a memorial to Grant. We considered 
that the memorial to such a person as General Grant should be somewhere in con- 
nection with the White House and the Washington Monument or with the Capitol 
and the Washington Monument — on the axis of two of those buildings. We did not 
think it was proper to put it out in the city here in any confined square. Therefore 
we located in the Botanic Garden in 1903, and remained there, looking at other 
places as from time to time they would be jiroposed to us. For instance, when they 
got the Union Station here some persons came to us and suggested that we place 
Grant in the plaza in front of that station, and the commission went there and viewed 
that site. We found that that was under the District Commissioners and the District 
Commissioners had other views in the matter and of course would not let us go there. 
When Secretary Taft became a member of the commission the question of this loca- 
tion came up again, and we considered it, and it was concluded that this was the 
only place that was suitable in Washington to place a memorial to General Grant. 

In the spring of 1906, when it was coming near the time that we should commence 
work, or consider it, we had the outline of the memorial staked out there; and it haa 
been staked out there for two years. We never have had any protest or any commu- 
nication of any kind in relation to it. The location was accepted generally by every- 
one, and a great many persons consider it the best. All the sculptors and architects 
of the country that have seen it have said that it was a fine location and a proper 
location; 

When work was commenced in the Botanic Gardens this fall, Secretary Taft was 
in the Philippines and 1 was out West; and I received a communication from the 
War Department to the effect that there were protests being made on account of the 
three historical trees. That is the first that any of us ever heard of those trees. We 
knew nothing about them. Nobody had ever said a word to us about them, although 
we had had staked out there in the grounds the outline of this memorial. And after 
receiving this protest, and not being able to be here, I sent a telegram to Lieutenant 
Poole, who had charge of the work in the absence of Colonel Bromwell, directing 
him to suspend the work until I could return. 

When the time came to make the actual location in the grounds. Colonel Brom- 
well, who had charge of it, and who had already made the location, suggested to the 
commission that we have some experts to advise him as to the exact location and as 
to the fitting of the model to the location. At his suggestion, Frederick Law 01m- 
stead, jr., of Massachusetts; Mr. McKim, of New York; Mr. Shrady, the sculptor; 
Mr. Casey, the architect, and himself were designated. They made the location 
almost exactly where Colonel Bromwell had originally made it. They having made 
the location, and knowing all about it, I, at the suggestion of the Assistant Secretary 
of War, asked those gentlemen to meet me here on the 12th day of November to go 
and see what we could do to change the monument or to save the trees. 

Several of the gentlemen who were present at that meeting had had a great deal 
of experience in the moving of trees; and it was the unanimous decision of the com- 
mission that there was no difficulty in moving these three trees and saving them. 
And upon that the commission advised unanimously that the monument be retained 
where it was and that the three trees should be moved. 

Since that time the commission has investigated this matter of moving the trees 
and has gotten all the information there is. We have with us here to-day a gentle- 
man who has been in the business for thirty years, who has been here and seen 
these trees, and has successfully moved trees equally as large. The commission 



4 GRANT MEMORIAL IN BOTANIC GARDEN, WASHINGTON, D. C. 

desire?, before you make any decision, that you will hear him. He has photographs 
and other data to show you, and he stands, I think, at the head of that work in this 
country. 

Even up to to-day we have never had any communications — I do not think we 
have had a single communication— asking that this monument should be removed, 
but we have had a great many letters and have had resolutions from a great many 
societies protesting against it. I will simply read you some of them to sliow what 
sort of communications the commission has received. 

Secretary Taft. That is, General, against the change? 

General Dodge. Against anj'^ change of the monumfut. We have had a few (two 
or three or three or four) comnmnications in relation to saving the trees, but none 
that advise a change in the location of the monument. 

Among these resolutions is one embodying the action of the Society of the Army 
of the Tennessee. All of the members of that society have been here and have seen 
this location. All of the members of the Societies of the Armies of the Potomac and 
the Cumberland have been here at times and seen this location; and I think the 
veterans of the civil war generally are greatly pleased with the location. There is 
no question but what General Grant's family are very much opposed to any change. 
Tliere have been sent to the commission the resolutions of the Illinois Commandery 
of the Loyal Legion. General Grant went into the service from that State. There 
is the letter of the sculptors in New York in relation to the location being a proper 
one. There are the resolutions of the New York Connnandery of the Loyal Legion, 
of which General Grant was a member. There are also resolutions of the society of 
sculptors or architects here in this city, and of the Architectural Club. 

Now, our monument has progress^'d. We have a good many of the models of the ■ 
parts of it. We have commenced work down here. Mr. Shrady and Mr. Casey 
have gone to a good deal of expense; they have gotten their material down here for 
the foundation. And I want to say to the Library Committee that the commission 
has no doubt whatever that it can remove these trees and save them. There is only 
one tree, the large oak tree, that there would be any difficulty about, if there is with 
that, because the' other two, the Beck tree and the Shepherd tree, are small elms — 
such trees as are moved around in the parks and everywhere almost every day in 
the winter. 1 have seen a great many of them moved; and Mr. Hicks, the gentle- 
man who is here, has moved hundi'eds of these trees. J am told — I have not seen 
the gentleman myself, but the gardener uf these grounds states that the trees that 
■were moved here when the Capitol was built, and that Mr. Richard Olmsted (the 
old gentleman) reported on, are still alive. 

Mr. WiLLiA.M R. Smith. Oh, no; no. 

(Mr. William R. Smith entered the committee room while General Dodge was 
speaking, and left at the time that the change was made to the room of the Committee 
on the Territories. ) 

General Doixje. At any rate, they were alive when he reported on them at that 
time, in 1884, and out of the hundred and odd trees that were moved, a list of which 
you can lind here in the report of the Superintendent of the Capitol grounds (or I 
can leave it with you), that report being made ten or twelve years after .those trees 
were moved, there are only two of the trees that were lost then, and he said they 
•were poor trees when they were moved. 

I think myself (and I have had some considerable experience in it) that the saving 
of a tree is simply in the method of moving it. I know some places where they 
move trees and save them, and other places where they do not. It simply depends 
upon the method they use in moving the trees. I think that we can move these trees 
and save them. Certainly we do not want to disturb a historical tree where we can 
save it; but it does seem to me that a great monument to Grant down here is a greater 
memorial to peace than even a very valuable tree. 

Mr. Thomas. General, do you mean to say that these persons who have made 
protests against a change from this spot are wedded to that particular spot and no 
other in the Botanic (harden? 

General DomiE. Yes; they do not think there is any other place in the Botanic 
Garden that is suitable. We have looked that (]uesti(Mi over, with a view to placing 
the memorial in the Botanic Garden and have it in accord with the Capitol grounds 
and in accord with the condition when that becomes an open square, which it some 
day will. 

Mr. Thomas. When the fence is taken down? 

General DowiE. When the fence is taken down. It is placed so that when Second 
Street goes through it will l)e in that S(|uare. 

Now, gentlemen, you nmst understand one thing. In locating a memorial of this 
size, 254 feet one way and 70 feet the other way, you must have sufficient ground 



GRANT MEMORIAL IN BOTANIC GARDEN, WASHINGTON, D. C. 5 

around it for its approaches, for its setting, and everything of that kind. All that 
requires at least, I should say, 500 feet on its long axis and 300 feet on its shorter 
axis. 

Mr. Thomas. I understand no work has been done at all. The ground has not 
been brok^en, has it? 

General Dodge. Oh, yes. We have spent considerable money there in installing 
the foundations, but stopped as soon as I received these dispatches in relation to these 
trees. I could not come here at the time. I was in the West; and I therefore, at the 
suggestion of the Secretary of War, immediately asked the department of public 
buildings and grounds to defer any further action on it until we (!ould come here. 
We have done nothing on the ground, because we have waited for whatever action 
Congress might see fit to take. 

Mr. Howard. General, how does the location of this monument harmonize with 
the generally accepted plan for the improvement of that part of Washington? 

General Dodge. When we located it in the Botanic Garden we placed this so that 
it would be in accord with that plan. That is, the location of the monument itself 
in the garden was placed so that if that plan was ever carried out it would be iti 
accord with it. 

Mr. Howard. Is it now in harmony with the construction, say, of the new National 
Museum, down on the right-hand side of an axis from the Capitol to the Monument? 

General Dodge. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Howard. And the new Agricultural Department building, over on the left- 
hand side? 

General Dodge. Yes, sir; it is. 

Mr. Howard. And other proposed improvements along in that section? 

General Dodge. Yes, sir; it is. 

statement of HON. WILLIAM H. TAPT, SECRETARY OF WAR. 

Secretary Taft. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee: I fear that in com- 
ing in at this late hour I may lack a knowledge of some of the details with respect to 
the question which has arisen. 

The committees on the erection of most monuments in Washington, under the 
plan adopted by Congress, are changeable committees in their personnel, for they 
include, usually, the chairman of the House Committee on the Library, the chair- 
man of the Senate Committee on the Library, the Secretary of War, and sometimes 
a representative of the committee of the army society that is interested in erecting 
the monument. But generally the Secretary of War is on every committee of thia 
kind, and therefore I am able to speak with some degree of confidence on the diffi- 
culty of selecting sites. 

Immediately that there is an objection made to one site, the argument is advanced: 
"There are lots oi sites in Washington where a monument can be erected." I wish 
first to enter a denial that there are lots of sites for any such monument. We now 
have, I should think, in the War Department some eight or ten committees, of which 
I have the honor to be a member, that are engaged in hunting sites; and it is the 
most difficult thing that I know of to find an appropriate site for a monument. The 
number of sites that are suitable for the Grant monument is a most limited one. 

This site was selected before I i-ame on the committee. It was selected by Gen- 
eral Dodge, Secretary Root, and, I think, your predecessor, Mr. Chairman, and 
probably Senator Wetmore. The site first selected, as General Dodge says, was on 
the axis between the White Hduse and the Monument; and it was changed because 
it interfered with that beautiful vista between the 1)ack of the White House and the 
Monument, leading down to the Potomac River. This location was taken up and 
adopted— I am not quite sure as to what moved General Dodge to it, but I know it 
moved S( cr >tary Root — because it fitted in so well with the proposed improvement 
of Wasliington. Now I know I am stepping on dangerous ground in mentioning 
that Senate plan, but I have not any hesitation in saying that, so far as the War 
Department is concerned and so far as the head of that Department is concerned, 
the control that by law is given to the Secretary of War with reference to the public 
grounds — everything that the engineers do is done with reference to that plan. 

The Chairman. I doubt, Mr. Secretary, if you put yourself in an/ danger as far 
as the committee is concerned. 

Secretary Taft. Therefore when we came to determine on the details of the 
monument, after it had been changed from the White Lot to this place, the com- 
mittee of architects which was appointed advised certain changes in the niotmment 
in order that it should not prove an obstacle to the vista between the Capitol and 
the Monument, in order that both sides should be adjusted to the position that it 
occupied with respect to the Monument. 



6 GEANT MEMORIAL IN BOTANIC GARDEN, WASHINGTON, D. C. 

The question has been asked whether trees would have to be cut down if this 
monument is put there. The gentleman from North Carolina asked that (juestion. 
The putting of the monument there will disturb only a certain number of trees, as I 
understand it. But if this plan is carried out, and if this monument is made part of 
the general plan, then, of course, trees will have to be removed. 

Now, I yield to no one in my feeling with respect to a tree. I feel as if cutting 
down a tree were like taking away a life. But, gentlemen, the question is whether 
we are to be bound by the place at which any man puts a tree with respect to sub- 
sequent improvements. I do not think the question can be met by a general maxim 
that we ought not to move any trees. We must move some trees. We believe, 
from the expert opinions we have had, that these trees can be moved; and doubtless 
in the construction of the Mall other trees will have to be moved. AVe will have to 
make an avenue through there, and you can not have a tree standing in the middle 
of a road; and if you wish at any time a correct plan with a straight communication 
between the Capitol and the Monument, and there are trees in the way, those trees 
will have to come out. And therefore, to say that you can not move a tree is to say 
that you can not advance. 

On the other hand, we give every consideration in the monument committee to 
the saving of trees. We have done so with respect to Lafayette Park. There are 
some fine trees there that it has been proposed to move in order to put monuments 
at the corner; and we have refused to do that because of a beautiful elm tree that 
stands just opposite the Cosmos Club. 

These trees are said to be historic. I do not deny that in a sense they are historic; 
but they were not put there by direction of Congress, and they do not themselves 
evidence the happening of any event at the place. They are not like the tree of 
Appomattox. They do not evidence anything, except that by an arrangement 
between the Senator from Kentucky and the gentleman who had control of this tree 
happened to be planted there at that time in memory of something. But, gentle- 
men, it is not evidenced by any historical record that I know of. It rests, doubtless, 
in the memory of man; but it is not like a monument that evidences something 
authorized by the public law, as this memorial does. 

Therefore it seems to me, as between the two, that the one ought to yield to the 
other, reconciling them as far as possible. And as we believe that we can move 
those trees without injuring them, I respectfully suggest that this act be not passed. 

(At this point, owing to the damp condition of the walls of the committee room, 
the hearing was adjourned to the room of the Committee on Territories, in the same 
building.) 

STATEMENT OP COL. CHARLES S. BROMWELL, V. S. ARMY. 

Colonel Bromwell. The law authorized the location of this monument in the 
Botanic Garden between First and Second streets. After that law had l)een passed 
I wrote a letter to the Secretary suggesting that the sculptor and architect of the 
monument, as well as an architect and landscape gardener of reputation, be associated 
with me in determining the exact location of the monument. The live of us had a 
number of meetings, and after consideration we decided upon this location. It is a 
point, as I say, on the axis between the Capitol and the Monument, midway between 
First and Second streets when extended. Second street does not now pass through 
the Botanic Garden. 

We took into consideration the so-called Burnham plan, which has been approved 
by the Senate, but has never been a]iprovt'<l by the House. This monument is 
located so that it exactly (its in with that plan. It was not our part to consider 
whether or not the Burnham plan was a good plan, and we did not take that into 
consideration. 

The CiiATHMA>f. But you tried not to have the location of the monument incon- 
gruous with that? 

Colonel Bromwell. Yes. We felt that if that plan ever should be adopted it 
would be a great mistake U) have the monument in a location not in conformity 
with the jilan. Our location, however, is perlectly satisfactory, and we consider ita 
very desirable locatifni, whether or not the P>urnliam i)lan ever is apjjroved. The 
Burnham [)lan can he cut out entirely and our location of the momnnent will not be 
affected. We consider it to be the best location for the monument now. 

If the linrnham plan is carried out it will necessitate the remoxal of a great many 
trees through the Mall. It is proi)osed, a.s you know, to h;we a roadway extending 
practically from First street to the Washington Momnnent. We did not consider 
that it was necessary for us to do anything at all with the trees around the monu- 
ment at the present time, because it is not nei'e.ssary to do anything until the Burn- 
ham plan is adopted; and when it is adopted the trees in the vicinity of the monu- 



GRANT MEMORIAL IN BOTANIC GARDEN, WASHINGTON, D. 0. 7 

ment will be a very small portion of the trees that will be affected. Our idea was 
that, locating it there, that portion of the Botanic Garden might very properly be 
thrown open as a public park. The law already provides that the fence around the 
Botanic Garden shall be removed, and the trees and shrubs, and everything left 
there; and it will then simply be like any other park. 

As far as moving the trees is concerned, I think there is no question that the 
chances are that they can be moved, provided you are going to pay enough money 
for it. It is simply a question of how much money you want to pay to try to move 
a tree. 

The Chairman. Colonel, did you ever have any experience in moving trees? 

Colonel Bromwell. No, sir; but I have looked into this matter very carefully; and 
if you take sufficient precautions, all of which are measured in a money value, you 
can increase very much the chances of successfully moving trees of the size of these. 
If you adopt the ordinary way of simply cutting a trench 4 or 5 feet from the tree, 
and cutting off all the branches that interfere, and, moving it in that way, you can 
well understand that the chances are very much against a successful moving. If you 
remove the earth 10, 15, or 20 feet from the trunk, and carefully gather up all the 
roots, and protect them, and move them, the chances of success in moving the tree 
are very largely increased. 

STATEMENT OP HON. ELIHU ROOT, SECRETARY OF STATE, 

The Chairman. Gentlemen, the hearing, was called at this hour because it was con- 
venient for Secretary Root to be here, and we will be very glad to hear him. You 
may not know the course the hearing has taken, Mr. Secretary. It is perhaps a 
little wider than the bill upon which we are holding the hearing calls for. Any 
observation that occurs to you with reference to the Grant memorial the committee 
■will be glad to hear. 

Secretary Root. I am very much obliged to the committee for considering my con- 
venience. I am glad to have an opportunity to say something about the location 
of the memorial, because 1 have noticed some misstatements — statements indicating 
a misunderstanding about it — in some of the newspapers. The commission created 
by Congress to secure a design and select a site and to erect a memorial was com- 
posed of the Secretary of War, the chairman of the Senate Committeeon the Library, 
I think 

The Chairman. Senator Wetmore. 

Secretary Root (continuing). Senator Wetmore and General Dodge, I think, as 
president of the Society of the Army of the Tennessee. At that time I happened 
to be Secretary of War, and so was a member of the commission. We met and 
organized and proceeded to the discharge of the duty that was imposed upon us by 
Congress. We took up the subject, I think, with especial interest, because General 
Dodge and I had been associated with General Porter in the building of the Grant 
memorial in New York. We were the two vice-presidents of that association, and 
had taken an active part in the entire enterprise, and had been very deeply inter- 
ested in it as personal friends of General Grant and of his family. When General 
Porter went to Paris as ambassador, the monument and its management, with the 
direction of the association, were left to General Dodge and myself as vice-presidents, 
so that we were already in the business and we took up the work of the statutory 
commission con amore. 

The Chairman. As qualified experts, also. 

Secretary Root. So far as a great deal of attention to the subject would qualify ua. 
Our work was not at all perfunctory; it went rather beyond the ordinary interest of 
the performance of a statutory duty. We had a competition for design, got some 
gentlemen to help us to select a design, and canvassed the subject of site very fully. 
We first thought of the site immediately south of the State, War, and Navy build- 
ing, and we thought of a site on the White Lot south of the White House, but we 
were not fully satisfied with either of those, and went all over Washington and 
looked at every place we could think of, and we discussed every place that we looked 
at, until finally we came to the conclusion that the monument, or the memorial, as 
I think the statute calls it, ought to have a definite relation to the public buildings 
of Washington, and we settled upon a site directly in front of the Capitol as being 
the best possible site. We considered that we were authorized by the statute to 
select that site because, although it was within the fence which surrounds the 
Botanic Garden — the grounds of the Botanic Garden — it was unoccupied. So we 
selected that by a formal resolution. We also selected the design and made the 
contract with the architect and the sculptor for a memorial which, in our judgment, 
was adapted to that site. That was the position in which the matter was left when 



8 GRANT MEMORIAL IN BOTANIC GARDEN, WASHINGTON, D. 0. 

I retired from the War Department, and my knowledge of the matter ceased. How- 
ever, I still kept a warm interest in it. 

In selecting that site, we had a good many things in vie *■. We considered that 
the statute, which made an appropriation of $250,000 for a memorial to General 
Grant, meant something more than the ordinary statue which, as Secretary of War, 
I have been engaged in putting up around the city as a member of similar commissions. 
We felt that it was the intention of Congress, plainly exhibited by the difference 
between that statute and the ordinary monument appropriations, to indicate a dis- 
tinction, and that it was our duty to secure a design and to select a site which would 
be distinguished, and which would put the memorial to (Tcneral Grant on a different 
footing from the memorials to many generals and public men of inferior place in 
history. We considered also the fact that indications were many that the region 
about the Capitol was about to receive attention and to be rescued from the some- 
what unkempt and uncultivated condition in which it had remained for so many 
years. 

The Chairman. You are not thinking of the statue of Washington east of the 
Capitol, the seminude statue? 

Secretary Root. No. The new Library had already been built, and the plans for 
the new buildings for both Houses of Congress had been talked of, and it had gone 
to such a point that those buildings were evidently to be put up, this building that 
we are in now, and the Senate building. The plan for the removal of the Penn- 
sylvania Railroad from the Mall and the putting up of this great station immediately 
north of the Capitol had been far advanced, and it was quite evident that the move- 
ment of the improving tendency was toward this particular site, and that the neigh- 
borhood of the Capitol was, within a very short time, to be made worthy of the 
Capitol itself. So we considered that a great memorial to General Grant would be 
a fitting part of the bringing up of the surroundings of the Capitol to a point worthy 
of the Capitol building. We considered that that immediate prospect made it all 
the more appropriate that we should select that site. 

We considered the plan which had already leen made public, of the so-called 
park conunission, with regard to the beautitication of Washington, and we consid- 
ered what effect upon our judgment the doubts a.s to whether that plan would be 
followed or not ought to have. We came to the conclusion that, while the site of 
the memorial which we determined upon fitted perfectly into tlie plan if carried out, 
that, whether it was carried out or not, this was incomparably the best site there 
was in Washington for the memorial. 

The Chairman. It did not depend upon the carrying out of the Burnham plan? 

Secretary Root. Not at all. I think the carrying out of the Burnham plan would 
probably imy)rove the site, but we were clear that, whether it was carried out or not, 
it was aitogether the best site that could be found, and so we performed the duty 
that was imposed upon us by Congress and finished our work in that respect. 

We made a contract, as I think 1 have said, with the architect and the .sculptor, 
under which they have gone on with their work until, I understand, they are now 
ready to put the work on the ground. It has now been five years since the design was 
selected and the site was selected. Not speaking now as a member of the commis- 
sion, for I have ceased to be a member of the commission, but speaking as a citizen 
interested in the memorial to General Grant and as a citizen who has been happy to 
count himself anions the jjersonai friends of General Grant, I wish to express a very 
sincere and earnest hope that the work of erecting this nieniorial to him shall not be 
interfered with; that the work that lias been done, which has taken so many years, 
shall not be destroyed; and that the whole effort shall not have to be made over 
again, for a large jiart of the money that was appropriate<l by Congress will have to 
be expended under the contract that has been made. The (U'si<;n that was selected is 
adaj)ted to a low, level site, and it is intended to be so that it will not come in com- 
petition with lofty l)uil(lin<;s; it is not, itself, to be a lofty memorial. 

The ('uAiKMAN. It is not assertive. 

S(M'retary Roor. No; it is not ast^ertive. It is intended to be i)ut in juxtaposition 
to some of the i)ublic buildings of Washington, and not to compete with them. 

I think there ought to l)e a memorial to <irant, and I think it ought to be put up 
by his old friends and followers and comrades who are still alive, and 1 hope that 
the work will be allowed to go on in accordance with the decision readied under the 
authority of Conure.ss and in the performance of the <luty that was imposed upon the 
officers name<l by Con<,fre.ss. I do not think of anything else, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Do«'s anyone desire to ask the Secretary any questions? 

Mr. CoNNKR. Were you a member of the commission when the contract was let? 

Secretary Root. I was. 



GRANT MEMORIAL IN BOTANIC GARDEN, WASHINGTON, I). C. ',> 

STATEMENT OP MR. WILLIAM R. SMITH, SUPERINTENDENT NATIONAL BOTANIC GARDEN. 

The Chairman. Mr. Smith, the committee desire to hear you upon this question 
of the location of the Grant memorial, and especially they wish to ask you certain 
questions about the Botanic Garden. 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Your name is W. R. Smith? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You are the Superintendent of the Botanic (harden? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How long have you been connected with the gardens? 

Mr. Smith. Fifty-live years. 

The Chairman. You may go on and tell us anything that occurs to you in regard 
to the location of the Grant memorial and the trees that are immediately affected by it. 

Mr. Smith. Well, forty years ago or more, when the war was beginning and begun 
in fact, I was very anxious for peace and was very much infused with the idea of 
Mr. Crittenden's being successful, his resolution being passed, and in walking up 
toward the Capitol with John A. Bingham on the one hand, chairman of the Com- 
mittee on the Judiciary, and Mr. Gartell, of Georgia, a particular friend of Mr. 
Stevens, I said, "Why can't I be the agent for bringing you two extremists together?" 
Mr. Gartell said, "Mr. Smith, if your friend Bingham will withdraw his force bill 
and pass the Crittenden resolution, I will guarantee that Georgia does not go out." 
Well, turning to Bingham with all the enthusiasm of my nature, at that time espe- 
cially, I said, "Now, John, now is the time for you to immortalize yourself." He 
said, " Well, I will see about this business." And he came up and got into the 
storm center and came back to tell me next day that it was no use, that no one man 
could control anything about it. That incident induced me to ask Mr. Crittenden 
and Mr. Mallory, his colleague and friend, Mr. Wadsworth, of the Committee on 
the Library — and they were all intimate friends — to bring from Kentucky one of the 
largest acorns they could find, and we would plant it where this conversation took 
place, in memory of his efforts for peace, even if they failed. It was planted; it has 
grown; it is a magnificent tree, and there are children of it over the four quarters of 
the Republic, and many of them in European countries. Three hundred of them are 
on the battlefield of Chickainauga, planted there by General Boynton, one of the 
bravest, grandest men of this Republic. Hence my ardent anxiety to save the Crit- 
tenden Peace Oak. If it is not destroyed, it may occupy the position as a peace 
agent two or three hundred years. 

The Chairman. Do you remember when this was planted? 

Mr. Smith. I do not recollect the exact date, but it was the year before Mr. 
Crittenden's death. It can be easily verified. Another one, planted by Mr. 
Howard, of Micnigan, is a still handsomer tree; of a different kind, however. It ia 
a scarlet oak, and that is one of the trees that will be destroyed by the destruction, 
to say nothing of 40 or 50 other trees, the two Morrills, both planted by Justin S. 
Morrill on that line. The Secretary of War very honestly stated that these were all to 
be swept away if this plan was adopted. These are trees that have been there, the 
two Morrills, and I might name 40 or 50 others. 

The Chairman. Did you make a record of these trees; was there any record that 
you kept? 

Mr. Smith. I have a record of it. 

The Chairman. That would designate them. 

Mr. Smith. 1 have not put the names on them for a peculiar reason. They would 
be pulled to death. Sentimentalism goes too far very often, and the people take 
leaves. There were one or two trees with the names on them that people wanted 
a leaf — wanted a piece of it — so I have not named them, as I will now if they are 
allowed to remain. Mr. Beck's tree, adjoining Mr. Crittenden's tree, is an elm that 
was grown here. When Mr. Olmsted was erecting the ari'hitectural terrace that 
had to be destroyed, there was considerable sentiment about it. George Wash- 
ington was said to have planted it, and I received the thanks of Mr. Olmsted for 
taking the roots and potting them, and one of them was planted for Mr. Beck and 
another planted for Mr. Alexander Shepherd. There was one of them Mr. Forney 
took to the public works of Philadelphia. Mr. Sargent, Senator from California, 
took one or two to California. Of course I do not know what became of tliese, but 
the sentiment exists with reference to trees in the minds of most scholarly people on 
the face of the globe. 

Now, I will speak about removing the Crittenden oak. No sensible man, going to 
the spot, would contend for a minute that such a thing could be done. I was aston- 
ished at Mr. Dodge assuming to suggest such a thing. Go there yourself and you 



10 GRANT MEMORIAL IN BOTANIC GARDEN. WASHINGTON, D 0. 

■will see that it is simply a nonsensical statement. "W ith reference to some of the 
other trees, there are several of them of which Mr. Forney and Mr. Forrest, the 
great tragedian, and an honor to America, brought me the seed, and I laid them in 
a flower pot and now they are nearly 50 or 60 feet high, standing there now as 
sentinels, telling their stories, leading people to think. My great countryman, 
Andrew Carnegie, is the chief agent of this peace question, but that tree will do'more. 
if left aione, than all the publications he ever made, because it sets people to tbink- 
ing. There is an object lesson; can you get a better one? It came from Washing- 
ton — that is a grand thought. It is a magnificent specimen of the vegetable kingdom 
and leads people to think about higher objects, if you please. I am prepared to 
answer any questions. 

TL.e Chairman. Now, Mr. Smith, when, if you know, was that garden established? 

Mr. Smith. George Washington selected it as a botanic garden, as a part of the 
college scheme that he had, as readers of history know, and in 1822 an effort was 
made to make a garden of it, and a collection of rare trees — native trees — was planted 
about the very spot where it is proposed to put General Grant's monument. That 
was in 1822. It has been known as the Botanic Garden since before the Government 
moved to this town, and I hear a good deal about L' Enfant — the L' Enfant business. 
The beginning of his scheme was on Third street, where he wanted a grand fountain 
or a monument, or sornething else, and a straight walk leading through to the Presi- 
dential gardens. Instead of that they borrowed money, and instead of the straight 
walk they put a canal where people could probably indulge in the poetry of Venice 
and beautiful gondolas and all that sort of thing. Solitary and alone I put the ball 
in motion to fill up that canal; got a number of Members of Congress from Nashville 
to offer the resolution to fill up the canal and make a sewer at one end of it and a 
basin at the other, putting Andrew Jackson's remark to the old Mr. Blair that he 
did not want such a dirty, stinking ditch in the middle of the town when God 
Almighty had made such a beautiful waterway. 



VIEWS OF THE MINORITY. 

I recognize the strength of the position of my colleagues and the 
very great practical difficulty which exists in the way of changing the 
location of the Grant Memorial. But with the duty imposed upon me, 
by the bills referred to the committee, to consider carefully the whole 
question, I do not see my way clear to approve of the site which has 
been selected. 

The invitation of the Memorial Commission to artists for the sub- 
mission of designs contemplated a work to be erected to the south of 
the White House. The particular design which was selected was pre- 

{)ared for the so-called " White Lot," which is a large and level held 
ying between the White House and the Washington Monument. 
Mr. Casey, the architect of the memorial, said that he designed it 
for an open field or parade ground, where it could be used as a re- 
viewing stand. It is probably due to that fact and to the ample sweep 
of the site the architect had in mind that the design was for a memo- 
rial of such enormous proportions, extending in length for more than 
250 feet, 70 feet in breadth, and covering an area of about 17,000 
square feet. 

A strenuous objection was made to having the structure put be- 
tween the White House and the Washington Monument and the con- 
sideration of that site was given up. The Commission thus had upon 
their hands, with the necessity for discovering a site for it, probably 
the longest, if not the greatest, work of art in the world. T^ere is not 
room in every public square for a work of such portentous longitude. 

It was not wanted in the vicinity of the White House. It was next 
proposed to place it in the plaza to the south of the new railroad station, 
but the architect of the station seems to have objected to having 
it there. There is quite too strong a tendency on the part of works of 
art of doubtful or unusual character, or undesirable for some other 
reason, to gravitate in the direction of the Capitol. Apparently in 
obedience to this tendency it found its way to the Botanical Garden. 
The necessity imposed by the enormous size of the work, well 
adapted to the location for which it was first designed, is in my opinion 
the chief justification for the selection of the present site rather than any 
special fitness that that site possesses for a memorial to General Grant. 
It is almost the lowest land in the District of Columbia, completely 
overshadowed by the Capitol and Capitol Hill. It is never likely to be 
used as a parade ground as contemplated by the architect and, while 
the street upon which it is located may become an important thorough- 
fare in the future, it certainl}'^ is not an important thoroughfare now. 
The memorial is to be placed near the hothouses and the other incon- 
gruous accessories of a botanical garden. 

The artists of the country, or many of them, have been led to believe 
that the location of the memorial upon the proposed site is in fulfill- 
ment of an important part of the so-called "Burnham plan" for the 

11 



12 GRANT MEMORIAL IN BOTANIC GARDEN, WASHINGTON, D. 0. 

development of Washington, but the model of the plan in the Con- 
gressional Library fails to show any such enormous structure at that 
place. Indeed, a work more than 250 feet long at the entrance to the 
proposed Mall and across the "axis" from the Capitol to the Wash- 
ington Monument would require a considerable modilication of this 
plan as shown upon the model. If it is necessary to select another site 
than that for which the memorial was designed, the whole subject 
should be reopened, so that the design and site might be exactly 
adapted to each other. 

In my opinion, a monument to Grant should be pla<"ed upon some 
more commanding location, and it should be from a design much less 
complex in character. The memorial proposed is not in keeping with 
the simplicity of the character of Grant. It does not recognize in 
any degree his career in the Presidency during eight important 
years of the country's history; nor does it suggest at all his rever- 
ence for peace that we should have a complicated memorial of this 
character, speaking of war in every part of it. There should be some 
simple and majestic monument bringing him to our minds as a man, 
as a statesman, and as a soldier. 

As to the beautiful Crittenden oak and the other trees, their preser- 
vation should not be beneath the attention of Congress. They appear 
to me more worthily to occupy that particular location than would the 
structure it is proposed to erect there. But if the memorial is not to 
oe placed upon another site, a special appropriation, if required, should 
be made to transplant the trees with every care to secure their safety. 

S. W. McCall. 



K My '03 



